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How do you know when it’s the right time to invest in yourself? Whether you’re thinking about entering into a Master’s program, getting a certification, purchasing an online course, or hiring a coach, you may worry whether it’s really necessary, whether the timing is right, or whether you want to invest for the right reasons.
I’ll be honest: I’ve invested in myself for the wrong reasons in the past! But it was through one of these “wrong” investments that I met my amazing guest and dear friend, Natalie Miller.
As a feminist mindset coach, Natalie helps entrepreneurs, artists, and thought leaders shift out of over-performance and into sustainable, potent, whole-self-honoring generativity. In this episode, we talk about skill building, gate-keeping, and honoring your yes — and reveal the powerful questions that you should ask yourself when you’re considering investing in personal or professional development.
Guest bio: Natalie Miller is a boldly feminist mindset coach who helps changemakers get fully grounded in their power. Natalie coaches individuals and small groups, leads leadership workshops for universities and organizations, and offers life-changing retreats all over the world. You can tap into Natalie’s magic through her Sunday Letters, on her Mind Witchery podcast, and by using her revolutionary (anti-)planner, Time Witchery.
Start unlocking your spiritual gifts. Listen now to discover:
- How to choose learning opportunities that truly align with your needs and values—and avoid the ones that don’t
- How to clarify what you’re really seeking so that you can get your biggest return on investment
- An invitation that will have you investing in yourself just the right way, so your unique genius can shine
- Listen to Natalie’s Podcast, Mind Witchery
- Purchase Natalie’s Planner Time Witchery
- Read Natalie’s Sunday Letters
- Follow Natalie on IG
- JOIN the Soul Guide Collective: A year-long spiritual membership and high vibe community for soul-guided leaders and lightworkers
- GET ACCESS to 10 High Vibe Minutes – the ultimate spiritual practice for busy lightworkers and start unlocking massive SOUL-aligned success
- Join the Waitlist for Soul Blueprint – A 12-week Live Course revealing how to use your unique energy template
- Join our community at the Soul Guide Circle of soul-guided leaders and lightworkers
- Leave a review for Soul Guide Radio
This Week’s Invitation:
Go back to the statement, “You are the answer that you seek”. Tap into your heart space and recognize that you have source energy in you and there is no stopping you. You are the answer.
[00:00:00] Hi there, dear ones. Are we living in such an amazing time in terms of what’s available to us? I mean, we’re so used to the internet now and we’re so used to the proliferation and abundant choices. We have to learn anything, literally anything, both free and paid. So, if there’s anything that you wanna figure out or understand, you can find a paid program to learn that or a free YouTube video, and it’s quite extraordinary when you really think about how humanity has advanced on this topic in recent years.
[00:00:42] And I really believe we’re only just scratching the surface. So, if you’re in the service-based industry and you’re interested in some sort of offering, some sort of online educational, programs to people, and you think that the market is just so saturated? My perspective is that we’re just getting started and most people in the world aren’t enrolled right now in an online program to continue our education.
[00:01:16] I have enrolled and invested in all sorts of stuff, and I suspect you have too, at least a, a few things because you’re here listening to me, connected to this, and we’re all really, really into personal growth and spirituality. And if you have a business, then maybe you’ve invested in various things to learn how to grow a business.
[00:01:38] Maybe you have a coaching certification. So we are in this world, right? But most people aren’t. I look at my husband, he’s never invested in any sort of personal growth type thing online, ever. And I suspect one day he will, but he just hasn’t gotten onto it yet, So, the market out there is really, really, really big, and the choices are huge, right?
[00:02:07] So how do we know when it’s the right time to invest time and money to get a certification program, to get a master’s program to further your education, to enroll in that course, to hire that coach? Well, I am so thrilled to be chatting with the amazing Natalie Miller today., she and I met during master coaching certification and when we reconnected to talk about doing a podcast.
[00:02:40] episode together. We both really thought that this would be a terrific topic, and I have to say it was so fantastic to unpack it with her. So, in today’s episode, Natalie and I share our journey to becoming master certified coaches in how we both joined a master’s program for vastly different reasons. We also reveal the powerful questions to ask yourself.
[00:03:07] If you’re considering investing time and money into any type of educational or certification program, we’ll end on an invitation that will have you investing in yourself and just the right way so that your unique genius can shine. So, stay with us until the end.
[00:03:28] Welcome to Soul Guide Radio, a podcast for soul guided leaders, influencers, and entrepreneurs. Here to bring about change on a massive level. We’ll explore how you can activate your big soul mission. Amplify your spiritual gifts. And clear the energy blocks weighing you down so you can gain unstoppable momentum in life and business.
[00:03:53] I’m Allyson Scammell, your host and soul guide.
[00:04:01] Hello Soul Guide Circle. That is the name of this global community of soul guided leaders, influencers, and entrepreneurs. In the Soul Guide Circle. We are pursuing our soul guided dreams while lifting up humanity. Find a link to join our close Facebook group at allysonscammell.com or in the show notes. Today’s guest is Natalie Miller.
[00:04:24] Natalie is a boldy feminist mindset coach who helps change makers get fully grounded in their power. She coaches entrepreneurs, artists, and thought leaders to shift out of. Over performance and into something more sustainable. Natalie coaches, individuals and small groups, leads leadership workshops for universities and organizations and offers life-changing retreats all over the world.
[00:04:48] Natalie and I had an absolute blast connecting over this topic. Please enjoy joy.
[00:05:04] Hello, Allyson. Hi Natalie. All right, everyone. So, Allyson and I go way back. We do. We do. We met in Master Coach training. We are both Wayfinder certified coaches. That’s Martha Becks kind of school of coaching. So, we did a How long was that program? Oh my gosh. I just remember. My daughter, my Freya, was eight months old when it started.
[00:05:34] Yeah. And I just remember like saying to myself, why the F U C K? Did I sign up for this intensive thing? Because I guess I thought it wasn’t gonna be that time consuming. Mm mm-hmm. And then I had this newborn ish, she wasn’t a newborn, she was eight months, but I was a new mom, and I was like, I had a transition to mother.
[00:05:56] Yeah. It was not like all the things that were just like, oh, it’ll just come to you naturally. I, I, I guess I skipped that, right. It didn’t come naturally for me at first, so, yeah. Oh my gosh. I remember that. And I, it’s funny for me, I was so ready. I was like, yep, this is right on time. I know I wanna do this.
[00:06:19] My kids were older, and I was at a point in my practice where I was like, 100%. This is the right step too, so what you and I actually wanted to talk about today was this question that comes up so often for people and it comes up for coaches, it comes up in all kinds of. Industries and careers. Right. Do I get the certification or not?
[00:06:43] Right? Do I, I, I’m interested in coaching people with a D H D. Do I need to go get special training in that? Do I, I’m a coach, do I become a master coach? I’m a, you know, whatever, like a therapist do. I go get specialty certified in blah, blah, blah. Right. How do you see it coming up for your folks? I get it.
[00:07:02] Oh, cuz a lot of my people are very spiritual and they. You know, they just get innate, natural spiritual gifts coming to them, energy gifts, and then all of a sudden, they, they just find themselves called, but they. what? What I see a lot is people are just called to start working with clients, but they don’t have the certification yet.
[00:07:22] Right. But they’ve struggled with that because then it’s like imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. And do I need to spend, I feel called to start working with people immediately, and I feel like I have the skillset, but do I need to invest the time and money to get the certification or do I just do I just. launch.
[00:07:39] Right, right. Okay, cool. So, I think on my end it’s more what I kind of see is people have kind of an initial training and then they’re like, okay, in order to specialize, in order to better serve my niche, do I need more? Or they have an initial training and they’re like, okay, I have, let’s. The bachelor’s degree in this.
[00:07:59] Do I need the PhD in it? Yeah. Yes. I, I get that too. I get that question as well. Yeah, I get both really. Do I get the initial bachelor’s, or do I go for the Master’s? Yeah. Yeah, totally. So, you know, I can’t help but think that like a, a primary issue here. Well, there’s a couple things, right? One is that we are in some ways talking about skill building for.
[00:08:28] I think. Hmm. And at the same time, let’s face it, there is major gatekeeping bullshit around letters behind your name, like certifications and letters behind your name. Right? So, it’s kind of like, on the one hand, does training or does additional training help you to build your, your toolkit? Does it help you to kind of like, really improve your ability to help people.
[00:08:59] And then on the other hand, there’s also like, but at what point actually is collecting letters behind your name or collecting badges for your website? At what point of the is that actually like not. Substantive. Right. So that’s kind of one thing that I see. What, what do you see just kind of generally about this question?
[00:09:23] Yeah, well, just kind of relating it to my own experience. I definitely feel like maybe I; I was, I had the. As I reflect, I wonder if I didn’t have, and I think it all happens for a reason and, and I definitely had my lessons to learn, but I wonder if I didn’t join Master Certification for the wrong reasons.
[00:09:44] Hmm. And I, and I have a feeling there’s some listeners who might relate to this. It was at a time when I was struggling to get clients. Hmm. I mean, yes, I had just had Freya, but I’d also, right before I. When I was four months pregnant is when I decided to quit my day job and go full-time as a coach. Maybe isn’t the best time to make that leap, but I thought, well, N now is when I’m gonna do it.
[00:10:07] So I was coming off of maternity leave and I decided to get the Master Coach certification and I really think that I thought it would get me clients. Yeah, Master Coach certification will lead to an uptick in clients. Didn’t in and of itself. Right. You know what I mean? It was like, it was like, yes, that it was like a yes and situation.
[00:10:29] It wasn’t directly a result of Master Coach certification. I started to get more clients when I was just putting in the time and learning how to market and getting clear about who I was. And yes, master Coach Certification helped me with that, but I think I got something different out of it than I, what I.
[00:10:48] Went into it thinking. Yeah. So, okay. I think this is so excellent as kind of a first when I was thinking about this question and like, okay, you know it well, I should tell you, I should warn you, Allyson and I are never gonna tell you what to do. Ever., we were deaf. Never we’re like, Actual coaches, not consultants, pretending to be coaches, like, Nope, we’re actual coaches.
[00:11:12] We’re never gonna tell you what to do. But we are gonna ask you really good questions. And so, for me, one of the first questions to ask if you are considering further training is why, why, why? Yes. Yes. Why do you want it? Like what, what do you imagine is gonna happen when you get that? Right? So, for me, when I entered Master Coach training, Alllyson, I was like, I want more.
[00:11:42] I want deeper into this organization. I want more tools. I don’t know that we got that, but. Right. But I was like, I was very clear that like, for me, it was not like, oh, this is gonna help me get more clients. Like for me it actually was, no, this is the next step for me on my own development of my Own coaching practice.
[00:12:08] So it was less about like, it’s gonna get me X result, and it was more, no, this feels like the way for me to deepen my own coaching practice. So, Natalie, I feel like this is a great example of. What I feel like your example is what people should be, should be the driving motivation for advanced study and mine was not.
[00:12:32] Yeah. Like had I do it to get, had I do it again, I would’ve asked myself much different questions. Right. Right. Well, because I think, you know, what we have to do is realize that in our dominant culture, the dominant culture is always gonna want you to go get more training, more letters behind your name, more certifications.
[00:12:53] Right. It’s going to pretend like that is always the answer, for sure. Right. And so, I don’t think like you were you. Dumb to think that that was gonna, that that was gonna give you success. Because the dominant culture is telling us all the time, like, yeah, oh, you know what? You really need a master’s degree.
[00:13:12] Oh, you know what you really need, like this designation or whatever. Right? Yeah, yeah. Totally. So, there’s another thing here that I think is, is also kind of interesting to think about, which is like, what is your relationship to being a student? or you know, like two studying, two like learning things. Right?
[00:13:38] So what is yours, Allyson? Like, how do you feel about being a student? So, that’s such a good question and a very important question, I believe, to ask for listeners who are considering furthering their education. Yeah. I’m weird. I’m a weird student. Hmm. I, and I’ve, I’ve learned that now, now that I’m stepping into, I feel like,, I’m really stepping into who I’m meant to be and what I’m meant to be teaching.
[00:14:03] Mm-hmm. and I am a very spiritual person, and I am a channel and a lot of stuff that I teach, I get directly from. Non-physical sources. Yeah. So non-human sources. And I find now that I’m really in alignment, it’s very difficult for me to find a human teacher that I wanna learn from. Mm-hmm. , it does happen and it’s, but it’s very infrequent and when I find it, I enroll.
[00:14:32] So I had an after Martha Beck’s Master Coach certification. I didn’t. I didn’t get any, any advanced study in anything else because nothing called me other than like business and strategy, that type of coaching. Yeah. And then I stumbled upon Quantum Human Design by Karen Curry Parker, and she just spoke to me.
[00:14:51] Mm-hmm. and my whole body. Just said yes. Mm. This is the human being I wanna learn from. And I advanced into her certifi. I enrolled into her certification program thinking that I wouldn’t get certified in like before that I was like, oh, I’m done with certifications. Like I. Got that T-shirt. So, for me it’s like when I really feel that soul connection to someone mm-hmm.
[00:15:15] that is when I’m gonna be very, very happy to be the student learning from the person. Otherwise, I’m gonna go to my intuitive channels for all learning. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and love that. So, like, the two things I would totally wanna tease out there is like, number one, listen to your body. Like if you are thinking about showing up for those.
[00:15:35] Sessions or you’re thinking about doing those, you know, and the way that I do it, when I check in with my body out and about you, Allyson, I like really to imagine myself, I’m like, okay, it’s a Wednesday, it’s a Wednesday morning. This is what it’s like in my home on a Wednesday morning, and I’m going upstairs to my office and I’m gonna get in front of a Zoom.
[00:15:56] And I really am, I put myself like in my imagination in that situation, and I see. Okay. Body, what do you think of this? And if my body is like, oh, I’m like, oh, okay. Like, what’s going on here? Right. How do you do it when you check in with your body? So very similar. I, I check for the Yes. Energy and no energy.
[00:16:15] So yes, energy’s always gonna have some sort of expanding, freeing, yeah. Even if it’s neutral. It can be an, it doesn’t, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be a joy state, although it could be. Yeah. I think often when we really hit that full body yes. It kind of puts us in a, a joy, high vibrational state.
[00:16:31] Mm-hmm., and we’re expanding out. Yeah. And then the no energy is the opposite. It’s. Contracting. Yeah. It’s going inward. It’s often got a heaviness to it, and it can be associated with a pain or a sadness or an overwhelm, or just like, yuck. I don’t wanna do that. Yeah. Yeah. I always think of, for me, it’s like I just check with my breathing.
[00:16:51] If my breathing is full and free, it’s probably a yes. And if my breathing is like, uh, Then it’s probably a no. That is actually an intuitive, in the intuitive Yes. No responses. You can go, it’s an advanced technique. Hmm. But you can go to your breathing whereby you ask a question like, you know, do I love my child?
[00:17:09] Like, do I love Freya? You’re gonna in immediately get an inhale breath. Do I love Freya? Yes. Yeah. Do I love to get bitten by mosquitoes? Yeah. You stop, you stop breathing for nose. Oh, that’s, and you do an, your body does an automatic inhale for Yes. That is some witchery right there. Right? That is witchery.
[00:17:28] That’s witchery. And so, listeners, if you don’t get that right away, it’s okay. That’s a little bit, it, it, it takes a little bit, but practice that. Yeah. And you’ll start to notice that it’s your, your, it’s an involuntary automatic deep inhale on a Yes. Yeah. And stopped breathing on a no. Oh, I love it. Is that cool?
[00:17:45] Looks so good. Yes. I love it. That’s fab. I’m, I’m gonna put that in my, I’m hanging that in my tool shed, right? Yeah. Do it. Do it. Yeah. Okay. So, but the other thing that I was thinking is like, you know, I wanna, you, you’re saying, I wanna check in with my body and I also wanna be like, do I really resonate with this human right?
[00:18:06] And I remember, oh my gosh, Allyson, let me, lemme tell you, because I love to be a student., like I fucking love it. I’ve loved it since kindergarten,, I am like school supplies and I love learning new things. And I think after master coach training, I immediately went and got certified in this like empowerment dynamic thing, right?
[00:18:27] Because I just love to be a student and for me it’s always kind of a motive. I have to be careful to choose the kind of, you know, the good things for me to, to enroll into. But for me it’s almost always motivating. and I will say that thing about the humans associated is that when I was in graduate school, so I was getting, once upon a time, I was getting a PhD in English because I love being a student and so I was like, I’ll just be an academic.
[00:18:54] Student for hashtag student forever, right? Yeah. Yeah. Actually, that’s not actually what, what it is. I didn’t know that, but I was like, wait, we’re not just like loving books forever. They’re like, no, we’re being really mean to each other. I was like, what? I don’t, we’re not like learning how to teach. They’re like, no, we don’t care about teaching, so, oh my gosh.
[00:19:14] Anyway, but I remember, I can see the day so clearly walking. Past my advisor’s office and peeking in, and I saw her, like the office was dark. There was a light on her desk. There were stacks of books and papers, and she was hunched in this tiny little form. She was like, like hunched over whatever it was.
[00:19:45] She was like corrected. She was correcting a paper on her desk. I was like, I don’t wanna be her. I don’t want that. I don’t wanna be like that. I don’t want, like, I don’t, I don’t ever want that scene to have me in it. Yeah. You know? That’s a very, no, that’s a no posture hunched over your desk like that. Like inward.
[00:20:11] That’s no energy right there. Yeah. And you know, like she, I mean she might, no, yeah, she might be living the best life of her lifetimes, but Totally, totally. Typically, that’s a no energy. Yeah. And for me, I think, you know, actually she made herself at home and that no energy. I remember once telling her, I was like, writing is so hard.
[00:20:31] And she was like, yes, it’s pain. Writing is pain. And I was. Okay, I’ll just get better at pain. So, but I think that is a thing, right? It’s like, like when you’re thinking about, okay, so you know, number one, why, why do I wanna do this? And then number two, how do I feel in my body when I imagine doing it? And then number three, who is involved and like, does this feel like, yeah, I wanna be in this, I wanna be in these circles.
[00:21:03] Yeah, I would like to join these circles. Yeah. That’s so good. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s weird, like, so I went through that, those questions you just asked about the Quantum Human Design certification I’m taking. And it’s four levels. Mm. And so I’m halfway through level three right now. A little behind, but level four is live.
[00:21:27] Mm-hmm. And it starts in September, and you have to be certified in level three by August. Otherwise, you miss it. Mm. And it might be a while before the next one, so nobody wants to miss it. And the most crazy thing, Natalie, is all of these people I know. are getting their certification as well, and we’re all gonna be like, it’s really synchronistic.
[00:21:49] Mm-hmm., we’re all gonna be doing level four, provided I get my work done mm-hmm. in September together mm-hmm.. And it’s, it’s just like this magical community formed. And I think that it’s because, you know, I’ve, I, I joined for the right reasons and I followed my intuition and my body, and now all of a sudden, really cool human design, circle of advanced, you know, practitioners is formatting.
[00:22:12] It just came outta nowhere, just like this human design community and I didn’t even expect that. Yes. I love it so much. You know, it’s funny though, as you were, as you were saying that, I was thinking like, yes, I have totally also met like soulmate people or, or commune with soulmate people in those kinds of places.
[00:22:33] And I think of course, right when we’re attracted to the, to the same vibration, when we’re attracted to the same material, it’s like, yeah, you’re gonna meet, you’re gonna meet new people. And that’s actually, that would be a great why, like, I want to be with more people who are interested in this thing.
[00:22:51] That’s like a totally legit why I think for joining a program. , 100%. Yeah. I think like networking, getting to know people. Mm-hmm. and yes, for the friendship of it certainly. And also, for the like, Hey, I’m trying to grow a business here and you have connections and I have connections. Let’s support each other.
[00:23:08] Yeah, totally. Totally with you on that. And I will say, as you were talking, I was like, Just smiling at like, here are here, are we? Right? Like we met in a training that was like a definite yes for me and was a, Hmm. Okay. Probably for you or, right. And it’s sort of like, there’s something in that for me that also says, you know, we can’t get this wrong.
[00:23:35] So when sometimes when you’re in a thing, you gotta be like, all right, what’s wor like? why did I come here? So basically, like if you are already in the thing and you’re like, yeah, I think I got in here for the wrong reasons. It’s like, okay, yeah, maybe, but there’s still something for you here, right? And this PS could be a certification, this could be a group program, a coaching program.
[00:24:01] This could be like any number of gathering things, right? Where it’s like, it could be a neighborhood that you moved to that you’re like, ugh, this is not for me. There’s something here for you. There’s like, go on the treasure hunt. Yes. And figure out like what was the connection, what was the resource, what was the, like, something was here for you.
[00:24:21] And I think that’s really important because if we get into a place where we’re like, you know, oh, that was a huge mistake. I think we’re like, that’s not the most kind, generous, and, frankly, effective way to think about. Choices we made that maybe were not made as consciously as we w we would’ve liked 100%.
[00:24:46] 1000%. You know, thinking about, this is what I tell my clients when they come to me. I just was with a client before the session and she said, I invested all this money in a relationship coach, and it was a big bust. And I wish I wouldn’t have done it, and I wish I would’ve invested it in you, Allyson.
[00:25:01] Mm-hmm. And I said, well, I do too. Of course. Cause I love working with you and, and what I’m gonna invite in for you, which I invite into anyone who, whoever says this, I invested in this, and I don’t know. Or it was a mistake. You made the decision; the money’s been paid. Now let’s get our mindset and our energy behind it.
[00:25:23] you can say, well, it wasn’t what I was expected and I’m not gonna do it again, and I’m gonna get the biggest return on that investment that I can possibly get. Sometimes going down the path that you know is not desirable is the most clarifying thing you can do. Yeah. So at least you’re getting clarity and just turn Matt doubt and frustration.
[00:25:47] I am gonna get an amazing return on my investment here. Mm-hmm. , you already made the decision, so just put your energy behind it. Put your thoughts behind it that I don’t know what the ROI is gonna be, but I am willing to receive it when the time is right. Maybe it’s in a year, maybe it’s in two years. You know, maybe we don’t get the ROI right away, but I am so ready to get a return on this time and money that I invested.
[00:26:11] So that’s the first thing I’ll say. I love it so much. I love it so much. And I think that like, there’s like two little, you know, the way that I, the way that I’m talking about affirmations in my world, Allyson, is that they’re spells, like there are like little spells that we can cast on our minds and on our lives.
[00:26:29] And so I will say things like, even my mistakes yield, abundance. Yes. They just do. They do. I’m like, I’ve, you know, okay, I’m married. Probably the wrong. and it yielded abundance. Yes, I went to the wrong graduate school. It yielded abundance. Right? And so, we have to, I, I, for me, that is just a very effective way to kind of, kind of be, be in the world.
[00:26:53] I love that spell. And on that spell note, the second point I was gonna make about the other question was,, I believe I probably joined Master Coach certifications for the wrong reasons. Mm-hmm., and that’s okay. Mm-hmm. and I made it into something amazing. Yeah. And I was open to receiving the abundance that was there for me.
[00:27:14] Mm-hmm. And when I look back, you’ll remember this, Natalie. The horses we got together for the retreat. We were the in-person retreat at Martha Beck Ranch and we did the Equis training. Right. Like which, like full pause. We’re one of the last groups that got to do that, that we actually might be the last group that got to go to Martha’s Ranch and spend days and Yeah.
[00:27:38] And we did, we did the Equis, we did the, we had a day with horses, and it was life changing. It was life changing. Oh, yeah. I mean, I’ve heard about, like, I, I’ve heard about some of the changes they made in the program, and all I could say was, oh my gosh, I’m so glad I did it when I did. Yeah. So, from that perspective, I made the right choice.
[00:27:58] Right? So, it’s, it’s always the right choice. It’s always the right choice. So, we did the Equis training. At this fabulous retreat and we’re hanging out with Martha Beck. Like Really? What kind of one-on-one close intimate time with her. Mm-hmm. , which is really like pretty incredible when you think about it.
[00:28:14] Yeah. When you think about the investment. It wasn’t like the most huge investment in the world, and we got so much time with her. Oh yeah. It was, yeah. I was crazy. Every coach call, we all got coached by her. Mm. I mean, that’s pretty, you don’t see that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, we had a whole faculty who was Yes, giving all kind.
[00:28:38] I mean, one of the things that one of the instructors did, I don’t know, do you remember Jen Johnson led Yes. Led like a kind of like. Guided visualization. It has, it has changed my own practice. Now I incorporate so much guided visualization into my coaching practice because that gave me, that actually gave me a witch vision, which was like, I didn’t know this, but would be the seed planted the seed from mind witchery, for sure.
[00:29:10] That is so amazing. And that’s exactly what I was gonna. We’re in the ring with the horses. Yeah. With Jennifer Voss, who is a Master Equis training. Yeah. I mean, the fact that we just got that as a complimentary thing. I know. I mean, it, it’s really unbelievable when you, so now I’m all like excited. I did it when I did it.
[00:29:27] Yes. Yeah. And I was in the ring and I just like the, so the idea of Equest training is you get in sync with the horse and when you’re in energetic alignment and flow,, the horse will do what you want it to do. Right. It will follow you. It will run. If you ask it to run, it will stop if you ask it to stop.
[00:29:44] Yep. And it’s really, but if you’re out of alignment, the horse is like, yeah, I am. No thank you. I’m gonna do what I wanna do. Yeah. So, Jennifer Jbo was her nickname. Jbo was teaching us. Like she was just asking us questions and I just remember like, I felt so like, and the horse was just looking at me. What do you want?
[00:30:06] Like, I am not connected to you at all in this moment. Right. And she was just like, Allyson, what is it you want? What is it you want? And I said, I just wanna uncork. Yeah. Do you remember that? I do. And the horse took off running. Yeah. And it was the coolest experience, and this sound was coming out of me. I don’t even know where it came from.
[00:30:28] And the horse just was galloping in a circle. Mm-hmm. and I, I, it was one of the coolest moments of my life, and that became the brand of my business for years. Yeah. About Uncorking, our true authenticity, our true self, our true gifts. Mm. It’s still, I don’t use the word uncork anymore, but it’s still. It’s still how I show up in the world.
[00:30:48] Right, right. Well, it’s like the energetic signature or the vibe is like, right? Like Yes. Release it like a, A champagne cork pop. Totally. Oh my gosh. Do you remember what happened with my time in the ring? I got in there and I was like, okay. And I sent the horse in one direction, and it was all fine. And then I wanted the horse to turn around, but I was worried that, I was worried that it didn’t wanna turn around.
[00:31:13] So basically, you know, this is what Equis does. It’s so fascinating. It like, it, it, it goes and I think Jbo even asked me like, so where else are you not doing what you want? Because you’re worried about how other people are gonna feel about it. And I was like, you know, sobbing pretty much everywhere, right?
[00:31:31] Everywhere. I’m always thinking about other people and how are my desires gonna affect other people? And now of course, that’s what I mostly coach on, is like helping people do what they actually want to do. And after the coaching, I did get into that energetic alignment and then the same thing happened to me.
[00:31:49] I asked the horse to go in the other direction and the horse started galloping, galloping, faster, faster, faster. And then, I don’t know if you remember, but all these horses from the pasture like ran down to the ring and Jbo got it all under control cuz she’s a professional. And then I looked at her and I was like, oh my gosh, that’s so wild that that happened.
[00:32:09] And she was like, you did that. I was like, no. She’s like, yeah, you did that. You brought everybody in. And I was like, no. So, you know, neither of us, when we were evaluating that training or signing up for it, neither of us knew that that was gonna happen. We didn’t know that was gonna happen. I thought I would get more clients.
[00:32:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was like, I dunno, I like this place. I would just like more of it. And I like being a student. Right. But I think actually part of the way we got it, Allyson, is that when we were in, we were all in. Like you had a baby, and you were still like, I’m coming. I’m coming, man. And not just coming, but coming from Europe,
[00:32:58] Oh yes. I came from Brussels, right? Yes, yes. Living in Brussels at the time. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I don’t know, do you remember, like, I had had like surgery a couple days before and I had this Oh yes. Weird. Like, oh my gosh, y’all, I’m not even gonna share all the details. But anyway, let’s just say I lost a lot of blood the, the day I got to California.
[00:33:17] I was in the emergency room; I lost a lot of blood. Obviously, I was fine, but I was like, they were like, it’s totally okay if you’re not coming. I was like, are you kidding? I’m gonna be there. And so I was, you know, pale and Juan and all the things, but like I was there. Yeah. It was the first time I had left Freya, she, at that point was like 18, 14 months.
[00:33:36] Yeah. She was 14 months at that point. Mm-hmm. And it was the first time I’d left her for more than like four hours. Mm-hmm. and, oh my gosh. The day I left; I was sobbing. She, first of all, she was at my parents’ house. She had like 20 people looking after her. Mm-hmm. She was more than fine. Right. But I was just like, I’m a bad mom.
[00:33:54] I mean, it was, I, I, I was raking myself over the coals. Yeah. And then I was like, well, I gotta go. I loved that. It was mandatory. This retreat was mandatory. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have. Really? No, because I would’ve been like, I, I think I was just too, like I would’ve been just, there was just too much mom guilt.
[00:34:14] Yeah. Then the second I got on the plane, I had virtually zero mom guilt for the entire time I was gone. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Like it somehow turned off. Mm-hmm. and I wasn’t suppressing it. It was just like I had, I was emoting, emoting, emoting. And then I got to the airport, and I got in the plane. I’m like, okay, yeah, I’m fine now.
[00:34:37] I, I will say, I still get mom guilt. My, my girls are now like teenagers, and I still get mom guilt when I travel, but I know reliably as soon as I’m through t s a, as soon as I’m through security. It’s gone now. I’m like choosing my snacks and making sure I have reading materials. Like, I’m like now fine. So, oh my gosh.
[00:34:58] Absolutely a thing. Yeah. It’s definitely a thing because I did the second time I, cuz like Covid, you know. Yeah. Whatever. We weren’t traveling, so. Okay. I’ve only left FREA a couple times since then, but I just left her again in November to do a retreat with Susan Hyatt. Mm-hmm. , who is also from the Martha Beck world.
[00:35:15] And I felt Mom guilt, mom guilt mom guilt until I got to the airport. Yeah. And there was no more mom guilt. Yeah. Who’s gone. Yes. So, but underneath this I think is something really important to, to think about when we are wondering if we need to pursue certifications or whatever. Right. Is that. This is an investment in you and.
[00:35:42] You know, on the one side there’s like a pressure to accumulate the letters behind the name. And on the other side there is, I think this very subtle, like, do you really need that? Like, do you know this very, or maybe not so subtle, right? Like, hmm, that’s a lot of money. And this could be again, for training, for a certification, or it even could be for a retreat for coaching for something that you’re like, Ooh, you know, This is a yes for me, or I do wanna be with those kinds of people, or whatever it is, right?
[00:36:15] Like, so I think thinking about it as I am making an investment into myself, . So, is this how I wanna invest? Like in my, in the portfolio of my like psyche? Is this how I wanna diversify? I want more of this thing. I want more of this organization. I want more of this skillset. I want more of this community like, and it is most certainly an investment in you, which when you’re a mother of course, what are you supposed to be investing in?
[00:36:50] Only the. According to the culture, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Totally. And I think that, I think when you think of it, look at it that way, you really tap into doing it for the right reasons. I think so too, and not for the wrong reasons. and I do not think any, in how many years have we been coaching now?
[00:37:13] Seven, eight years of coaching. I’ve never ever had a potential client, or a current client ask me about my certifications. Correct. Never. I’ve never had it. No. So, so in terms of like getting this degree, this certification, this training is gonna build my business and get me more clients, I would, as someone from experience, I would not.
[00:37:35] That is just, That’s the not, not the most highest vibrational way to look at it is how, like you just said, how do I wanna invest in myself? Yeah. Yeah. And if furthering my education is how I wanna invest myself and my business. So, you can, you know, you can look at it as the business too. Mm-hmm. And then you know exactly what you’re saying.
[00:37:55] Like looking around at the people, you know, look at, look, I., A great thing to do is look at other grads from a program who have gone on to some success. Like, do you wanna be walking in similar footsteps to them? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, feeling through all the vibes, right? So, like, attend the info session, but not for the info, attend it for the vibe to sort of see like, who else is here, what are the kinds of questions people are asking?
[00:38:25] Like how do, when the answers come through, how does it, how does it feel? Like, all of those kinds of things I think are really important. And you know, maybe even. In the end, something to say is that there are so many ways you can invest in yourself. There are so many ways you can invest in yourself, and certainly like what I’ve discovered is that I am my very best investment.
[00:38:50] Better than a mutual fund, better than a house, better than, you know, gold plated diamonds or what? I don’t know. Whatever people invest in, right? Like me, when I invest in me, that is an excellent investment that I always get the highest returns when I invest in me. I, I’m betting you feel the same, Allyson.
[00:39:09] Oh, 100%. 100%. As part of that, and I, I’m like such a believer in coaching. Like I don’t necessarily always sign up for certification programs, but I almost always have a one-on-one coach, like, or I’m part of like a, a small group coaching program. Yeah. I believe full heartedly in coaching, and I would not have the success I have today without coaching for sure.
[00:39:30] So I’m a big believer in it and what I will say about that as well. as part of investing in yourself. Sometimes it’s actually not coaching and it’s not a certification program. It’s hiring a va. Yeah. To help you. Yeah. And I think that is part of investing in yourself too. So just thinking about like, okay, I have, I’m feeling called to invest in myself, my business.
[00:39:56] Mm-hmm. Is it that I just need to invest in support? Right, right. Yeah. Like and, and maybe even the question is like, where do I begin? Right? Like where do I begin and, or maybe even like, what am I hungry for? Right. Because it may be also that really what you need is a massage twice, twice a month, and a personal trainer, so you actually are working out.
[00:40:19] Yes. Maybe that’s what you need. Maybe you need a housekeeper and someone to pick up your kids from school. Like, yeah, like I don’t know what it is that you need, but thinking about what you’re really hungry for and like, okay, that’s gonna be the first investment and then I can diversify my investment portfolio.
[00:40:37] Right. I can add more investments on top of that. Yeah, I think that’s so., that’s so good. And I’m with you. When I don’t, when I have a break between one-on-one coaches or me not being in a group program, I feel it intensely. Now, of course, you and I we’re both coaches, so we love coaching, and it really works for us.
[00:40:59] And you know, I don’t know that it works for everybody, but yeah, I was thinking though, as you were talking, I was like, can you imagine. If instead of seeing people’s letters behind their names, can you imagine if it said things like nine months of therapy and or nine years of therapy and counting? Right.
[00:41:19] Or like, you know, like this is, if, if we could, if we could see kind of some of those other investments, I would be like, oh, I, you know, I definitely wanna hire that lawyer, not because of all of the letters behind the name, but because like, clearly they’re like an. Self-reflective kind of person. Right.
[00:41:38] Really cool branding like that. That could be a cool way to put on your like about page. Yeah. To have that, because that would definitely make me connect to someone immediately. Like, oh, a like-minded soul. Me too. Right. And to kind of see like someone who is really, as we would say in Wayfinder living it to give it, right?
[00:41:57] Yes. It’s like, oh my gosh. I’m not gonna tell you that coaching is the answer if I don’t think it’s also the answer for., you know? Correct. And one thing I wanna add on that, about what you were saying about the massage, and I, I totally agree, Uhhuh , sometimes you might be called to investment and you’re like, I don’t know, because like I got called to sign up for Morocco last year.
[00:42:17] Mm-hmm. and I didn’t know why. And like it was a seven day retreat to America Cash, Marrakesh, and.. There wasn’t much on the sales page. And that’s me too. I barely read sales pages. Yes. I get just an energy and it’s like, yep. And I decide fast. Mm-hmm., it’s like, gotta do it. Beautiful. But even so I was reading the sales page and I was like; I don’t know what’s gonna happen there.
[00:42:40] And I’m the typically the one that would sign up for retreat if it’s like business growth and there’s gonna be breakout sessions and you’re gonna sign your marketing strategy. Mm. or like it’s a big spiritual thing and you’re gonna be doing shamonic practice in the jungle in Costa Rica. I did that once, like mm-hmm.
[00:42:59] It’s either gonna have a big business growth angle or a big spiritual growth angle, but this was just like come to Morocco. Mm-hmm. And I didn’t know why. and then I got there, and I noticed that there wasn’t a lot of coaching on the agenda, and I’m like, wait a minute. I like co. Like I wanna be coached and where are my coaching breakout sessions?
[00:43:17] Mm-hmm. . But I realized that what my heart was calling me for was just a fucking awesome vacation. Yeah. With really cool women. Yeah. Doing things that I would never have organized. Self. Yeah. And when you get a group of people you can afford more, you know, you can get your dollar, get stretches stretched.
[00:43:36] So we were doing hot air balloon rides. Mm-hmm., we were doing all this crazy stuff and from the experience I was getting book ideas, I was getting like program ideas. Yeah. Meeting these really real cool people and I was like, oh my God. It was just the experience that I was hungry. I didn’t need the breakout sessions.
[00:43:53] Yeah. I needed the experience. Oh, I love that. And I think like that brings us back again to like, you know, you wanna ask yourself why you want this thing, but sometimes you might not know, but your body knows. Yes. I actually just signed up for a retreat. It obviously hasn’t happened yet. It’s a, but because I really like the woman running it and because.
[00:44:16] My body again, I didn’t really read the sales page. I didn’t have to. I was just like, I like her. I like this idea. I like going there. At this time of year I’m in right and already, fascinatingly already I’ve discovered that someone else that I’ve been wanting to get to know for a long time also randomly signed up for this retreat.
[00:44:37] And so we’re gonna get to know each other on this retreat and we, you know, we’ve just been wanting to for a long time and it was. Oh, yeah, that’s a yes. Right? And again, it wasn’t, if this is a writing retreat, I’m not particularly like, I do wanna write a book someday, but I’m not doing it right now. But I was just like, yeah, I’m gonna go do this thing, and you know, I’ll write something or not.
[00:44:56] I don’t really care. It’s just a yes, yes. Yeah. I love that. It’s just a yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. So, where coaching can come into play last little bit for you. All right. Is that if it’s hard to hear or feel a yes. and maybe even more if it’s hard to honor your yeses and nos. That’s where Allyson and I help
[00:45:20] Yes, that’s where we help. We help when you, like there are so many other pressures, voices, responsibilities, whatever is in the way that we can’t even hear. Intuitive or embodied voice or that we can totally hear it. In fact, it may be even screaming at us, and we can’t figure out how to honor it. I love it.
[00:45:47] Yeah. Yeah.. Yeah. So, because that’s usually, for most people, I think we get the read, we get the Yes read or the no read, and sometimes we can’t. But I think more often than not, you get the read and then it’s just, you know, having, being able to follow through on it when it feels scary. Yeah. Or it feels like a risk, or I don’t know what the return is gonna be.
[00:46:07] Mm-hmm. . . And so yeah, just staying with that Yes. Energy when it’s there and just trusting. Trusting you’re gonna get what you are meant to get, and it likely won’t be what you expected. Right, right. See, for example, Natalie and Allyson met in the master coach training, and here we are many years later, like what?
[00:46:32] Seven years later? Here we are, seven years later, and we’re. Connecting. Yeah. Alright. Allyson. This was the best convo. So, the best. So, you’re amazing. You’re amazing. Oh my gosh. Like how we we’re gonna have to meet on the planet in some way. Yes, form. Well, I was just thinking like I’m being called to write a book this year and I’m like, maybe I need to get the details of your writings.
[00:46:56] Yeah. Oh my gosh. That would be amazing. That would be amazing. Yes. Yes. And on that note, Natalie, I know people in my network are gonna wanna get some of your spells and to get into your witchy world. So how can our listeners find you? Yeah, please come have a listen to mind, Witchery. Come have a listen to mind.
[00:47:16] Witchery mind. Witchery is my podcast. It is feminist self-coaching. I also do monthly lunar episodes, so I, I get together with an astrologer, and we talk about the moons that are coming and yeah, I talk about all kinds of things, basically coming down to. Trusting ourselves, being kinder to ourselves and doing it in a way that is countercultural and is feminist.
[00:47:41] Meaning like I really do believe that when we do what we want, we change the world. So, mind witchery, come listen to that all. Write my love. All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:48:05] And I wanna thank you so much for listening, my dear one, my invitation for you this week is to notice, what you’re being called to learn right now, where are you being called to go deeper in your mastery? Then ask, does it require an investment in a program or an offering, or am I just being called to go deeper in my own self-study and see what answers return to?
[00:48:38] And that’s all we have for today’s episode. I hoped you received so much from it. And as always, until next time, may your soul guide the way.
[00:48:52] Are you ready to deepen your connection to your intuitive gifts? Then it’s time for 10 high five minutes. The ultimate daily mindfulness practice for soul guided leaders and entrepreneurs. In only 10 minutes per day, you’ll keep your energy high vibe and aligned to your highest dreams while transforming your daily practice into a powerful tool to manifest big wealth and abundance.
[00:49:18] Get free access now on my website, Allyson s scammel.com or in the show notes.
05:04 Meet Natalie Miller
06:28 “Do I need a certification?”
08:14 Skill-building & gatekeeping
10:52 “Why do you want it?”
13:17 Your relationship to studying
15:26 Checking in with your body & resonating
21:11 Quantum Human Design certification example
23:12 Finding the ROI
26:55 Equus & uncorking
32:23 Being all in & mom guilt
35:24 Investing in yourself
42:05 Honoring your yes