How to Attract Soul-Aligned Clients with Authentic & Unique Brand Messaging with Joanna Ingram

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When I first started my coaching business I had the hardest time answering the question:

What is my unique brand message?

Traditional marketers will tell you that brand messages need to be clever, concise, strategic, persuasive, and relevant to the target audience.

These words blocked me in coming up with an answer because all I wanted to do in my business was share what was coming from my heart.

It demonstrates why soul-guided entrepreneurs need to take a different approach. 🌟

 And that approach has you sharing the real, true, and authentic you with the world. Because being yourself is exactly what your soul clients want! 💖💫

 And that’s what we are exploring in today’s episode of Soul Guide Radio. I had the most amazing conversation with Joanna Ingram on how to attract soul-aligned clients with authenticity.

 Joanna Ingram is a former advertising agency director turned brand messaging activator and business coach. She helps soul-guided entrepreneurs find their true voice, embrace their unique brilliance, and clarify their authentic messaging.

Joanna came into my path at just the right time and her message about unique brand messaging to me and you, dear listener, is timely and spot-on. Enjoy!

Guest Bio:
Joanna is a former Advertising Agency Director turned Business Coach & Brand Messaging Activator. She helps high-achieving female coaches clarify their unique brand message and market their brilliance to attract 5* soulmate clients using her Messaging Edge™️ Method so they stand out from the crowd and supercharge their business energy. Joanna the host of Goals With Soul, ranked in the top 3% of global podcasts, the weekly show which shares marketing strategies, energetic approaches and special guest interviews to elevate coaching business success. She lives in London UK with her husband, three daughters and lockdown rescue cat Olive, and her perfect day always starts with feeding the swans in her nearby woods.

In this episode, Joanna and I explore:

  • How you can create unique brand messaging
  • Why sharing your true essence is so important
  • How to do it at a deeper level


Joanna’s Resources:

  • Connect with Joanna on Instagram HERE
  • Check out Joanna’s Free Messaging Checklist For Coaches HERE 
  • Listen To Goals With Soul HERE 

Allyson’s Resources: 

This Week’s Invitation:

Ask yourself the question, where is it I am hiding in my business right now that when I get clarity and courage, it will draw my soul clients to me?

Allyson Scammell: [00:00:00] Oh, hi. Before this episode gets officially underway, I have an important message for you. If you’re a soul guided leader, light worker, coach, healer, entrepreneur, or truth seeker, our energy is upgrading as I speak. This means you can amplify your five spiritual gifts or the gifts we use to connect to and co-create with the spiritual realm.

So, if you’re feeling called to connect and co-create at higher and higher levels, then I invite you to join me for my Soul Blueprint. My Soul Blueprint is a 10-week course that reveals how to amplify your five spiritual gifts in a way that you can clarify and align all aspects of your big soul mission. Start believing in yourself so completely that you become unstoppable and leave the massive mark you’re destined to. Learn more

[00:01:00] and sign up at forward My Soul Blueprint and you can find a link in the show notes.

Hey there, Dear ones, what is happening in your world today? I hope you are feeling fine and fantastic, and if you are not feeling fine and fantastic, sink into your body, feel the resistance, feel that low vibey energy, allow it to the outer edges of your experience to be felt and released. Oh yeah.

Take a deep breath. Release the exhale. ooh, feels so good. Second deep breath with me.

And All right. One more breath with me. I know you can do it. [00:02:00] Oh yeah. Feeling higher vibe already. We have a beautiful episode for you today. I had an amazing guest. I just have a great job. I love the guests that appear on Soul Guide Radio. I, just like something magical about this podcast and

the things that come from this podcast to include the guests where there’s so much synergy and so much synchronicity. So, our guest today, Joanna Ingram, you know I’d never met her before, but we chatted like Long Lost Old Pals, had just so much fun connecting. I’m gonna be on her podcast and we will link, put a link in the show notes to that.

And then I just know that she’s someone who’s gonna be in my life, and if there’s a way I can support her on her path, I will. So that’s just the beauty of, you know, these soul relationships, you know, soul clients and [00:03:00] soul peers that you attract in, and they become such a beautiful part of your network.

And I really feel like that’s what we’re evolving to in business. I don’t think ads will go away. And I actually am a believer in ads. I like to pay money to have somebody help me get in front of soul clients. However, I think we’re evolving to a place where if you don’t like ads and you don’t feel like spending money on ads or that’s just not feeling aligned to you right now, then the opportunity for partnerships has never been so strong.

So, you connect with those people that you just feel such an energetic alignment to. I’ve really been lucky enough to attract these soul partnerships and these soul peers into my experience where there’s absolutely no feeling of competition, and it’s just like, how can I help this person? How can I add value [00:04:00] to their community and their network and their life?

And you just have this inner knowing that they’re gonna reciprocate in magical ways. So, I felt that with Joanna, and she came on with this, our topic for today, which is actually about unique brand messaging, and she came along at just the right time when I’m going through an uplevel in my business and I’m thinking about

rethinking and re-exploring my own brand messaging. So, boy did I need Joanna today, and I think you are going to adore her. So, without any further ado, let’s get to it in today’s episode. Joanna and I explore how you can create unique brand messaging, why sharing your true essence is so important, and we go beyond Fluff Talk on this one and how to do it at a deeper level.

We end on an invitation that will have you creating brand [00:05:00] messaging that feels amazing to you and calls in the dream clients into your life and business so please stay with us until the end. Welcome to Soul Guide Radio, a podcast for soul guided leaders, influencers, and entrepreneurs here to bring about change on a massive

 level, we’ll explore how you can activate your big soul mission, amplify your spiritual gifts, and clear the energy blocks weighing you down so you can gain unstoppable momentum in life and business. I’m Allyson Scammell, your host and soul guide.

Hey there, Soul Guide Circle that is the name of this community of soul guided leaders, influencers, and entrepreneurs. In this soul Guide circle, we have big soul missions, and we yearn to earn more, serve more, and grow [00:06:00] spiritually along the way. If you aren’t already a member, then I invite you to join our Facebook group of over 2100

leaders and light workers who are in service to each other and the planet, find the link to join on my website, or in the show notes. Today’s guest is Joanna Ingram, and we are talking about how to attract soul aligned clients with authentic and unique brand messaging. Joanna Ingram is a former advertising agency director turned brand messaging activator, and business coach from London, host of the leading podcast goals with Soul and Mom to three spirited girls.

She helps visionary coaches find their true voice, embrace their unique brilliance, and clarify their authentic messaging so they can sign soul clients, raise their prices and stand out from the crowd in their industry. I had a blast speaking Joanna. [00:07:00] She came a along to me in my life at just the right time.

So may she serve you as well. Please enjoy.

Welcome, Joanna to Soul Guide Radio.

Joanna Ingram: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Allyson.

Allyson Scammell: I am so excited to talk about this topic. I always say that I attract guests onto the show whenever I need something. Like whatever it is in your genius, like I need that thing, the moment of recording. So, I always take that as a good sign, cause that means probably my listeners do too.

And I like need some brand messaging, help myself. I can explain to you later what I mean by that, but I just think this is a timely episode and I’m really excited. I love

Joanna Ingram: that. I do that too. Just leaning into intuition what needs to come along always comes [00:08:00] along. I’m so excited to share this with you.

Allyson Scammell: And we were chatting before I hit record and we both like Ryan Reynolds. Mm-hmm., you know, I never used to, I didn’t tell you that, but you know why the David Letterman interview? Because I thought he was very corporate and they’re like, Ah, he’s the corporate structure. And I saw that interview and I can be a little cynic and jaded when it comes to like super famous people.

I’m like, ah, you know I’m a little distrustful, I admit, but I saw that episode and I’m like, oh my gosh, he is a real human being

Joanna Ingram: and you just the hit the nail on the head. Really. I mean, I don’t know if that was planned, but I’m just thinking, ooh, this segue is just too good to me here. This is literally, I’m thinking, why do I like Ryan Reynolds so much?

He’s so authentic and He’s so real and he doesn’t feel like he has to act cool in any way just because he’s a movie star. Just cause he’s married to Blake Lively and she’s the same way. She’s goofy [00:09:00] and irreverent even just themselves and they seem to like get off on that in each other and we get to share that.

And of course, it makes us love them even more. And when you said that you’re in need of brand messaging, it’s just that authenticity that makes all the difference from just picking up and saying, I’m a coach, or I’m gonna work in this area, and then becoming somebody that people really know. That they, that you are for them, You’re, you are their soul client.

You are meant for them. And it comes between the point of just doing a role and putting yourself out there with some sort of guarding or just not really knowing what that looks like through to just getting total clarity and showing up authentically as yourself. And Ryan does that so well, even though he’s not a coach, he should be.

Allyson Scammell: I mean, I, like I said, I have a pretty healthy level of distrust for like super famous people cause you know, I have [00:10:00] my, I have my beliefs. So, for him to have like, changed my beliefs so much from one interview, I think that you, that you hit the, the nail on the head in that, it was because he was so authentic and I said, there’s no way this guy is faking this.

He’s just not faking it. And so, I imagine that that is like really, you know, And I think faking it, like none of us, I think most of us on the soul guided path, we never intend to fake it. We never try to fake it, but I think sometimes we get scared. Really opening up and saying, hey, this is the true, authentic me and you know, warts and all.

You know, we perceive ourselves to have these warts, and that’s very scary. So then we start mimicking what other people are doing because we see it working for them, and it doesn’t really lead to results. Am I getting this right?

Joanna Ingram: Oh, you are so getting this right. It’s like we want the business success and [00:11:00] intellectually we know that if we can stand out and differentiate, then that would be a good thing for our brand.

But we are so entrenched with that fear of being arrogant or suggesting that we are that good or that different that, I mean, in Australia, I think they call it tall poppy syndrome, but we are really used to going, Hmm, maybe if I blend in and I do what the others are doing that seem to be successful, that’s gonna be the recipe for my success.

But where that tends to go wrong so frequently is that although we can launch ourselves and start making some money and making some impact before too long, we realized that we could be getting symptoms like working with de-Energize clients. We’re like, what’s going on here? I’m getting some client work, but these clients aren’t leaving me feeling

full and joyful, but instead leaving me feeling depleted. And certainly, when you work with energy and you’re an empath, you’re gonna be more sensitive to that than [00:12:00] the most. And when you come off that call and you’re like, oh my goodness, I’m gonna have to put half an hour of grounding and energy protection in before I could even go into our next call.

You start to wonder what is it about my messaging that might be calling in perhaps not Those people that are making the elevated energetic leaps that I myself are making and I see for my clients.

Allyson Scammell: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. And what I hear often from my clients is that they really feel coming across salesy.

And I just had this epiphany. I think people in the service-based industry, especially those of us who are on a spiritual path or soul guided, we fear, we collectively fear being salesy. And you know, it kind of like blows my mind because if, okay, I’m gonna be talking to you about like, I wanna buy new socks.

Like I would like to get a new pair of really cute socks that fit me and keep my feet warm. And they maybe got cute little designs on it. Now my phone is [00:13:00] around here, something, and my phone’s listening to me. My phone hears me. I’ve got the security settings on, but you know, because my phone just picked that up, my Facebook newsfeeds are gonna be popping with ads from all sorts of sock designers.

And does that make me mad? Does that make me like those sock designers are so salesy? They’re in my face, but no they like, they have their, you know, they’ve got their Facebook ads to pop in and if somebody’s talking about, I need socks, they’re gonna be showing up in those feeds. We coaches fear that for some reason, like showing up in a feed because we’ll be salesy, we’ll be pushy.

So how can we, like, I just don’t think that’s true because people need what we have to offer. Just like, I need new socks, so let’s get in their news feeds when they’re looking for what we have to offer. So, lots of questions to come from that. Let’s start with, I like this question, like what are the mistakes that [00:14:00] you see a lot of coaches and entrepreneurs making when creating their messaging?

And then, and then before you answer that, maybe you could also speak to this like fear of being salesy and how we can

Joanna Ingram: overcome that. Absolutely. And first of all, I’ve worked for nearly 20 years for leading London advertising agencies, and that whole Facebook intuitive advertising thing was something that we actively pursued.

Yeah. It’s like people are interested in this, how can we get this in front of people? And I mean, there’ve been a lot of law changes since then, which means that you are not given half of the intuitive ads that you could have been previously. But like you said, it’s like this weird energetic network where everything will pop up now and it comes from a real tree.

That’s if we need something or we want something energetically, either our reticular activating system’s gonna start noticing it in our environment or energetically through the steel, we’re gonna start drawing it towards us, cause we are all creators, [00:15:00] and we as coaches have that opportunity to be the answer to someone’s question, be the solution to someone’s problem.

But like you said, Allyson we fall into certain mistakes over and over. And one of the most basic ones that I see so frequently when clients first come to me is that I’m not really seeing their unique brilliance. They’re kind of like, Oh, well, I’m just this, or I’m just that. And it’s coming from a place of thinking, who am I to do this?

And there’s nothing really unique or special about me. I do blend in and, you know, there’s enough work for everybody, I guess, but I certainly haven’t got any messaging that makes me different or unique, which by the way is never true. It’s only true that often we can’t see it for ourselves, and that’s usually the starting point.

But it goes on from there because it’s all well and good to have clarity about your unique brilliance, that [00:16:00] having the courage to actually share that is an entire, entire different ball game they have. You have to elevate out there and sell. And this is where the selling point comes in because we’re kind of taught to think that selling’s, icky when, like you said, say, Well, just before Allison, it’s

essential if we’re gonna help our clients to actually make that leap and get the solution that they need. One of the techniques I’ve found that works so, so well through a messaging lens is really dialing in your powerful mission. Because I, I realize that when I help clients to get a mission that is so much bigger than their offers bigger than their program, bigger than even their

messaging at that point. It means that you don’t really have to sell after that, not in the sort of traditional, icky way that we might believe it. Instead, what you’re doing is you’re selling your mission and your [00:17:00] vision by talking about it with passion, courage, enthusiasm, having that drive. And the sales piece,

are you getting people to actually pay for what you do tends to come almost naturally as a secondary piece because you’re not selling that thing. You’re selling that higher vision and purpose. Mm.

Allyson Scammell: That is so good. That is so good. And so, I love the mission. I was, as you were saying that I was just thinking about, are you familiar

Melanie Ann Layer? I am not. She’s a pretty, she’s very young, very, very successful, multi seven figure business coach, helping spiritual entrepreneurs, and I think she has got the most brilliant mission. Like I always remember it. Her mission, which she talks about is, I’m gonna help a million entrepreneur, like a million spiritual entrepreneurs, make a million.

I wanna help a million, make a million. Like she wants to, I mean that like she wants to help create that kind of wealth. And I don’t know, I think that there’s [00:18:00] just something brilliant about that. It might be like, Well, whoa, that’s, that’s a lofty big goal. But like, she’s, she’s going places. So, she’s already proving to you that she’s well on the track of help, she’s created a lot of millionaires.

Mm-hmm. and like, how important is it to get, like, that is really specific. You know, I wanna help a million spiritual entrepreneurs. I don’t know her exact words, but it’s something like, make a million dollars, make their first million. So how important is it to get that specific, Like, I always feel like whenever my messaging is off, it’s just not specific enough like, Like that, that’s like my take.

And I’d love you, to like talk about like how important is it to get this specific or is it Yeah., Cause I feel like a lot of my clients are like, Yeah I wanna, I want to get clear on my message and my brand message and my mission, but it just doesn’t feel clear and it feels too vague.

Like, how do we overcome that sort of, it feels vague feeling and how important [00:19:00] it is it to like be sort of clear and with numbers and whatever? Okay.

Joanna Ingram: This is a really, really good question, and I may not answer it the way you thought I might. Oh, even better. I would say, first of all, specificity is very important if it is totally authentic and true to you.

And I think this is where a lot of these things go wrong. I can’t comment on Melanie’s mission because, I don’t know her personally, but I can tell from what you say about her success that clearly, she’s dialed in a mission that is very personal and very meaningful and something she’s leaning deeply into.

But I know when I first started on that whole mission work, but for personal brands, I saw that a lot of entrepreneurs were mirroring what big corporations might say. And indeed, if you go onto websites and you look at corporate mission statements, there will always be specific numbers in there, a certain goal, a [00:20:00] number of people, a value.

And in my work, particularly with heart centered entrepreneurs, I find that sometimes those numbers just don’t feel authentic. Sometimes they feel unrealistic. They feel. You’re just having to jam a number in because that’s what you’re supposed to do in a mission statement. And the most important thing that I believe about mission statement is that it has to make perfect sense and be truly authentic to you.

So good example is when I first started, I was very much out of alignment. I was deeply in my masculine. I’d come out of like nearly two decades working for advertising agencies. I was very much the corporate mindset, threw myself into coaching in a productivity accountability space. Very quickly burned out.

Very quickly got into my spiritual side, got qualified as a pranic healer, breathwork facilitator, and lent into divine feminine and had to completely review [00:21:00] what my mission was, what it was about, and I noticed a distinct change between I wanna help a million entrepreneurs or a thousand entrepreneurs in 2023.

You know, this sort of wording into going into what my stories really are, and this is such an important part of brand messaging. Knowing your stories and which of your stories are really the ones that are core to your brand and they’re gonna resonate most and direct your future prospective clients into the right engagement and resonance with you.

And I realized, What I was actually about and what I’m teaching so much now, and my mission is around championing authenticity and individuality for women in business. Because I had come from a background where you’ve had to fit into a mold in order to be successful in the advertising industry, and I’d realized that you couldn’t necessarily express yourself and be authentic, whereas now, of course, as our own bosses working in this wonderful online business, we get [00:22:00] to

express and articulate our businesses, our messaging for ourselves, and so much of that for me is about overcoming the good girl stereotype that I grew up with, which was do get the good grades, get the good job, listen to authority, do what you’re supposed to do, and you will get all the rewards. And obviously finding out as I went through life, that that wasn’t necessarily true and in fact getting quite stressed out and burnout was certainly not a great reward for doing what I was supposed to do.

And I’d gone through other trauma. I nearly died in childbirth when my first daughter was born and was thrown into this existential crisis of around why do bad things happen to good people and what have I done wrong? And honestly, coming through that I realized that as I’m building my business, the more authentic and real I can be in my business, the more resonance and connection I’m gonna have with my tribe and those people that are meant to work with me.

And [00:23:00] that’s what I teach. It’s about creating ambition that makes sense. So, when I describe my mission or my brand messaging statement, almost every word in that, I can tell you the story behind it because it’s me and it’s not a mission that anybody else can own in the same way possible. Does that make sense?

Allyson Scammell: Yes, it does. And I think what I like about that is if you are new on the newer side business, it’s normal to not be specific because you don’t know yet necessarily, cause you haven’t, You know, we get clarity as we coach clients or as we sell programs. And like you said, like when I started, I started as a completely different coach as I am now.

So, brand messaging back then was pretty hard because I didn’t know who I was as a coach yet and that just sometimes takes time to get into that. Like, who am I as a business owner? And we have to put out [00:24:00] the programs and the mission statements that aren’t necessarily a hundred percent in alignment to find the ones that are, I think, right?

So, it’s like, true. Yeah. So, it’s being compassionate on ourselves if you’re like, Well, I know what it is, but I don’t have the right words yet or it’s not coming to me. You know, like a big thing that I’ve been discover or exploring into recently is like the divine timing, divine timing and things arriving into your experience, the divine timing of life, and I’ve really come to discover that clarity,

subject to divine timing and that clarity arriving about like, who am I really as a business coach and what is that real mission statement, that clarity will often arrive at just the right time. So, if you feel like you’re not a hundred percent sure yet, or that clarity’s still coming, like would you recommend that

like just go with what feels a hundred percent authentic, authentic in this moment? [00:25:00]

Joanna Ingram: Right. Totally. Yeah, totally. We should never hold ourselves back. Like just like you Allyson I started as one type of coach and I allowed that to evolve, but I think we get little soul callings when we know we are ready for an up level.

You know, those symptoms pop up, like I mentioned earlier, that de-energize clients, sometimes it’s sales plateau. We’re like at that same level, month after month, we’re like, I’m not sure what’s going on, or I’m starting to get into a dip. Not feeling that passion of feeling a disconnection from our business, and oftentimes building audience growth, but without converting them into clients, because of course we can start to build our audience, but then when they come to us, whether that’s on our Instagram account or on our website, there’s a disconnection

in our messaging with really what they’re expecting to see or in the energy of what you have behind the scenes, you’ve kind of outgrown the messaging space that you’re currently in, [00:26:00] and that’s what I see particularly for solopreneurs, people who are so aligned, what’s happening is we, the soul driven entrepreneurs, we are doing so much spiritual work.

You know, we’re constantly getting ourselves immersed in books, programs, conversations, podcasts to help us understand our mission and creation better. And that means that we are moving real fast. But we created a business sometimes six months ago, sometimes 18 months ago. Sometimes our big program or our offer is something we’ve already outgrown.

And having the confidence, the courage, the certainty to evolve that and sometimes completely refresh that is something that you get that little niggle about, you know, cause you’re feeling a little bit disconnected from your offers, not that energetic and passionate about [00:27:00] creation in your business. And sometimes people are, I don’t know what’s going wrong, I don’t know what’s wrong with me.

Like, I don’t wanna show up for my business. I’ve started going, I’ve stopped going live. I’ve stopped, or not even started what I said I’d do. And that’s when oftentimes I’ll end up in a conversation with somebody and it’ll become true, that they can see that they’re ready for their next expansion and their next messaging up level.

And that’s why a lot of that energetic dissonance was going on in their business because they have upleveled, but their business and their messaging was a little bit lacking behind that.

Allyson Scammell: Yes. Oh my gosh, Joanna, I have experienced that many times in my business and I’m going through it right now. I, you know, for years I’ve been targeting soul guided entrepreneurs and I will always target soul guided entrepreneurs or connect to, because they are my first love and I have such a calling, such a soul calling to expand

my network to [00:28:00] soul guided entrepreneurs and light workers who are just interested mostly in their spiritual growth. So, I’m in this pivot right now, and one of the things that I’m struggling with is I am, you know, helping people with their spiritual growth. And how do I find like, so this is sort of a, in some ways you could look at it as an esoteric crowd, although it’s becoming less esoteric, but sometimes there’s

real insider talk among this circle, right? And I know with good brand messaging, or tell me where I’m wrong, you wanna be like really clear, like plain English or plain, whatever your native language is. So, I’m struggling with finding the plain English to talk about this new really evolved, high vibey thing that’s arriving.

So, what do you tell people who is in, they’re in the uplevel? And like in that situation, do you just, you go [00:29:00] with what words feel good or like how do you, I don’t know if you can find my question here, but it’s like sometimes I feel the push pull between finding the clear language that I know, like I always think could, my dad, he’s a farmer and he lives in middle America.

Would he understand? Like, is it so clear my dad would understand, or do I really want to use language that maybe my dad wouldn’t understand? But it’s for this sort of esoteric group of people. I don’t know. Am I making any sense? Am I rambling?

Joanna Ingram: No, you’re making perfect sense, I’m just like, I’m, but I’m making notes cause I’m like, I’m gonna forget what I say by the time you got to the end of the question.

But you’re there and I. Sorry it was long. My notes. No, no, this is good because what you are asking about comes up all the time and I love that you’re in an up level. You’re, that’s beautiful because you’re not afraid to step into your next level and to raise, to elevate the vibration of the people that are in your circle and in your world.

So, first of all, [00:30:00] yay, yay. But what I think you are calling to is a combination of expression and articulation of your messaging. And so many coaches, entrepreneurs really struggle with this, but it doesn’t have to be that hard. There are two things I think will really help you and others who are thinking about the same thing.

First of all, your dad doesn’t need to understand because he is not your audience. Okay. So that it can just be like, Yeah, let’s about that. Okay, cool. Cool. I think we can completely forget. Okay. But it is true that in our industry it’s really easy to get into this very convoluted language. And you know, someone start reading it,

they’re like, I have no idea what this woman is talking about. It’s like, what is this? Even people who are arguably in the same niche as you, and that’s because we get carried away with over articulation of certain things. So, the way I like to advise is, what would you say if you’re on a [00:31:00] call with your best friend who’s in your industry?

It’s like if your best friend said to you, she’s, she works in the same industry, she knows all the same stuff, and she, and you were telling her, look, I’ve got this new program coming out and you were just telling her about it. That’s the level of language that you should be looking to articulate on your website or in your messaging, in your posts, in your content, rather than putting yourself in this almost ex corporate,

I need to write it in a way that goes in the brochure kind of way, because none of us buy from brochures, right? We buy from resonance, empathy, understanding. Yeah, but I gotta add one other element to this as well. And this is a trap that is one many people fall into, which is talking about pain points as this central part of your message.

Now we know that all of our clients suffer from pain points, and they want solutions to those. They have their [00:32:00] desires. We’re in the business of delivering those desires through the promise of our programs and of our work. But when we get stuck in really drawing on those pain points, what we are doing is actually attracting clients who are, entrenched in those pain points like energetically.

They’re probably more mixed victim mindset. They’re not ready for change, and when instead we might reference the pain points, but the language that we use is a lot more elevated and it talks to the desire of our ideal client, then we draw those people who are ready for the outcome. They’re ready for the results.

Those are the people, of course, who will be the energizing clients. They’re the ones who will get the best results. You’ll feel great about working with them. They’ll refer you the great testimonies. All the energy is really good because they’re ready to step into change.

Allyson Scammell: I like that. That is interesting.

I usually, I guess I’ve, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Donald Miller and Story Brand.

Joanna Ingram: I am. [00:33:00] It’s a great piece of work.

Allyson Scammell: It is. So, I’m kind of a story brand student, and that’s sort of a model that I’ve template or a framework I’ve followed for my copywriting, he kind of says equal parts, pain point, equal parts, desires, you know, it’s a framework,

right. And so, we’re, we’re, we’re going, we’re elevating beyond frameworks in this conversation. But I’ve always sort of followed that kind of you know, touch on three pain points, touch on three desires. But this is interesting. So how would you then, you would say lead with desires, right?

Joanna Ingram: I would lead with desires, yeah.

Interestingly, I’ve worked with a lot of light workers and in, in this space more than any other lead with desires. Interesting. Think there’s an elevation in this part of our industry. We know what we want. We’re concrete, creative. Yeah. And we want to work with someone [00:34:00] that sees us as whole, sees us as perfect, holds us

in their vision as complete and having everything ready, even though there’s some work to do to take us there. And when we start calling to that in our language, we find that people energetically are drawn towards us. Yes, we do recognize the pain points, but those most elevated, most energizing avatars will step forward when we match the expectation of the elevation.

Allyson Scammell: I like that. That really resonates with me. You know, you make me think of, are you familiar with human design at all? I

Joanna Ingram: am. I’m a reflector.

Allyson Scammell: No way. Oh yeah.

Joanna Ingram: You got a unicorn.

Allyson Scammell: You are a unicorn. Wow, that’s so cool. You know, it’s really funny. I ran all the charts for my whole family and my brother is a manifestor, but he has like one defined center, and I’m like, Oh my gosh, you’re so open.

You’re almost a reflector. That is so cool. I [00:35:00] love that. So, I recently got called to, I’ve really been called to Karen Curry Parker’s quantum human design world and what she’s doing. Are you familiar with her?

Joanna Ingram: I’m not, no., I’m writing these down. Yeah.

Allyson Scammell: Check out Karen Curry Parker. You wanna know why, she is doing exactly what you just said

and it totally drew me in. And I believe I am an ideal client of hers because she’s saying she is taking the original, she’s taking traditional human design that was sort of birthed when we were all broken, you know, we all needed so much healing. We were all so outta whack to our unique energy templates.

And so traditional human design was birthed to kind of put us back together. And now many of us light workers, we’re pretty much chugging, we’re aligned, you know, we have our wounds to heal still. And it’s, there’s growth still to be had, but it’s not like we were 30 years ago, 40 years ago. So [00:36:00] she’s taking human design just as you’re saying and saying like, I’m assuming your whole and you wanna take your human design type and go to the next level

of the full expression of your potential. And that just like called me in. So, I think that that’s just an example of what you just talked about. Her brand messaging, doing that, assuming I’m a whole complete person, but I’m ready to up level, that’s what she did and that’s what called me in.

Joanna Ingram: Absolutely.

And then we get to create communities of people that are already there., They might not have the 3D result in their hand. Yeah. But spiritually, they’re already there. And when you’ve got that high vibe community, or even if that’s just the relationship between coach and private client, it’s a really different vibe to the victim group going, we don’t have it.

We don’t have it. How are we gonna get it? How are we gonna get it? Versus. I’m having this, It’s already out there. It’s in my [00:37:00] vortex. It is done. And I’m mixing with people who see that in me, other people who might already have it, and we’re all kind of doing this. It’s interesting. I literally just got back from Lisbon yesterday.

I went to a business retreat for a few days, and this was so true that the women that I’m in the room with, highly inspirational, successful powerhouses. Not one of them came without a problem, but none of them are stuck in the problem.

Allyson Scammell: Yeah. Yeah. They’re there

Joanna Ingram: to solve it, to burst through it. Yeah. Be our next level.

And that’s the messaging we’re talking about. We’re talking about

Allyson Scammell: getting

Joanna Ingram: whole, we’re getting complete. We’re getting the results, we’re bringing it out the 5d into the 3d because we know it, we trust it and we’re gonna keep moving towards it. And in messaging, for me, it all just goes back to really who we are in ourselves.

And it’s about calling to our highest self. And so many times the people that get most stuck [00:38:00] in messaging are the ones I find who forget that when you work with an ideal client who is a lot like you are slash were dependent on what we’re talking about here, you know the answers, they’re all inside of you.

But we get so wrapped up with, I don’t know what I would say to them. I don’t know what I, what the, what their, what is their pain? And its interesting cause I produced a process called Brand Epics, where epics is an anagram for the five aspects of life and business. And the first one is E for experience.

No, I’m gonna talk about C for character because I think that this’ll will give the most value right now. It’s that too frequently we forget who we are as personalities and characters in our business and how that relates to our soul clients. So, a good example is someone I came across recently, he’s working midlife women who are going through menopause and he’s a much younger [00:39:00] man. Now,

he has his reasons for doing this. That’s interesting. I know, right? He has his reason. I’m picking, I’m picking quite a, quite a, like the obvious one here, but it could be more subtle, right? And we have to say, well, what is it about the character that’s gonna call in those clients? And clearly there’s a big disconnect in that one.

But even more subtly, take my own story. When I first launched my business, and I mentioned that I was working accountability, productivity, ex corporate stuff, I was calling in really de-energizing clients because I thought, Hmm. I’m really energetic and I’m really driven. So, I guess the people that need my help most are those people that are not.

And of course, I looked around the landscape of entrepreneurs and there were many people out there that fitted that description. They were saying things like, I never seem to hit a deadline. I can never actually launch anything. I get too [00:40:00] easily distracted. I’m stuck in procrastination. All this stuff. And I was like, well, clearly, they need me.

So I started getting clients and I was calling to their pain points, literally, I was like, Oh, is there too much work for week? And what I, you know, you can never hit a deadline. And, and they were, they were starting to work with me, which I thought, yay, I’ve got a business. But then very soon I got completely burned out.

Part of that was how exhausting I was finding the work with people that I was playing mum too. I was like pulling them through. I say, It’s okay. If you can’t do it, I’ll do it for you. I’d lost my boundary. Oh yeah. I was over delivering. I know that one. No, I wanted them to, I wanted them to get there so badly.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but once I had this burnout and I had this epiphany while I was walking through the woods where brand epics was born from, as I was deep in this spiritual season of allowing the divine feminine to flow and seeing where it took me, and I realized that who you are and your character, [00:41:00]

is such an important part of your messaging and your business. And for me, the aha moment was, is that the women I tend to attract as friends and partners, as in joy partners, collaborations, and all of this came through having a real resonance with my character. And those women were highly driven, are highly driven, their passionate and

they don’t need to be invited here a deadline, right? They’re just gonna get it done. They too need help, but they don’t need handholding. They need support, but they don’t need a mom. You know? It’s a completely different energy, and that comes from knowing a lot more about your character, personality, accepting it into your business,

and allowing it to shine through in your messaging. Yeah. You know, if you are, if you are, if you’re ballsy, then be it. Don’t, don’t hide your light if you are, you know, deeply empathetic and flowy and flowery and allow that to flow out into your messaging. Don’t think you [00:42:00] have to be another way, because when you are yourself in your articulation, you will draw those people to you who really are meant for you, not just people seeking

the solution. Oh, I help you build a business. There are so many business coaches out there. There are so many light workers that help people to transform in different ways. And when we talk about unique, authentic, and brilliant messaging, one of those aspects of brand epics that your character and personalities such a key opportunity for you to stand out.

And of course, for you to draw in those soul aligned clients.

Allyson Scammell: Yes. Yes. That’s all so good. Oh my gosh, I’ve loved this episode so much, and I also, what I love about what you just said is attracting that really soul on client leading with their desires, assuming that their whole. I think that you also get in that a really motivated client to invest.

They’re either motivated and ready [00:43:00] today or they’re gonna wait three months, six months or whatever. They’ll know. They know when they’re gonna be ready to invest in your offering without the sort of, oh, I don’t know, I’m not sure that sort of very hesitation. I just had a client who was really frustrated with her prospecting.

She was getting a lot of hesitation. I’m interested, but nah. And so, I think that that also will get that just motivated, like I’m ready to do this and it’s either now or whenever I’m ready I’m gonna show up, you know, pay in full and I’m all in and there. That’s also a super, that all in energy is also very rewarding to work with.

And that’s what you really wanna call in?

Joanna Ingram: Oh yeah. They are your soul aligned clients. Yeah. Hell, yes life and a hundred percent in, Yeah, because they really know, like, and trust you. They really feel your energy and that energy that flows through your messaging, that’s, yeah. That’s the most tangible 3D [00:44:00] opportunity to create messaging that allows your energy to transmit from you to your most soul aligned,

heck yes client.

Allyson Scammell: Yes. Beautiful. So, Joanna. I have loved this; I have learned so much. Could you please leave our listeners with an invitation, inviting them wherever you wish them to go? Okay.

Joanna Ingram: Right. We talked a little bit about clarity and courage today, and it’s true that a lot of people are hiding something about themselves that really should be out loud and proud in their brand messaging.

So, I would like to leave an invitation that some of this has resonated with you and you are thinking, I wish I could evolve my brand. I’m feeling stagnant. I’m feeling stuck, just to take an opportunity to journal for maybe five or 10 minutes or walk and think or whatever way you like best to allow your intuition to flow and new insights to come, but to ask yourself the question.

Where is it [00:45:00] I’m hiding right now in my business that when I get clear and when I get courageous will draw my soul clients to me?

Allyson Scammell: Ooh, where is it that I’m hiding in my business that when I get clarity and courage, it will draw my soul clients to? Exactly. Powerful. Yes. Great invitation. Joanna, I know there’s gonna be listeners who are going to want to learn more about you and your work and how to connect.

How can our listeners find you? You can find

Joanna Ingram: me on my Instagram, which is I am Joe dot Ingram. You can seek me out on my podcast. Which is called Goals with Soul, which Allyson will be my guest on very, very soon. And I also have a free messaging checklist. If you would like that, just ping me a note either on Facebook, I’m Joanna Ingram or over on Instagram, and I’ll get that sent over to you.

Allyson Scammell: Beautiful. And we will leave all of those [00:46:00] links in the show notes to include a link to my spot on Joanna’s podcast so you can check out her amazing podcast and subscribe to that. And Joanna, this was amazing. Thank you so much again for sharing your wisdom with us today on Soul Guide Radio.

Joanna Ingram: My pleasure.

Thanks so much, Allyson.

Allyson Scammell: And thank you so much, dear listener for tuning in. Wasn’t Joanna just a breath of fresh air? I hope you loved this episode. If you did, please give us a rating. Give us a review. There’s a link in the show notes of the various places you can review this podcast, and I will read your words on the air. And as always, until next time, may your soul guide the way.

Are [00:47:00] you ready to fill your business with soul clients in the next 60 days? Then download my free energy upgrade meditation to amp up your energy frequency, dissolve the doubt, and attract the soul clients you are destined to serve. Find the link to download on my website,, as well as in the show notes.