When you show up, do you show up with true authenticity? Or do you feel that you need to water yourself down to be “acceptable” to those around you? We often feel that our authentic selves don’t fit the mainstream mold — that there are parts of us that other people will find off-putting, uncomfortable… or just plain weird. This fear can cause us to hide these parts of ourselves away, even if we value them!
How would it feel if you could confidently express your authentic self, without worrying about being rejected? What if setting your inner weirdo free was actually the key to enjoying soul-aligned success?
Miriam Schulman is an unbelievable artist and the author of Artpreneur: The Step-by-Step Guide to Making a Sustainable Living from Your Creativity. Miriam believes that anyone with a laptop and a dream can make a thriving living from their creativity. In this episode, we unpack how to embrace your inner weirdo and uncover your own unique personal style — and the amazing results you can achieve when you live, work, and create authentically.
Guest Bio: Miriam Schulman an artist, author, and host of The Inspiration Place podcast. Her signature coaching program, The Artist Incubator, teaches artists to go from so-so sales to sold-out collections. Her forthcoming book, Artpreneur, is scheduled to be released in January 2023.
Give your inner weirdo the chance to shine! Press play to discover:
- How to build a successful signature brand based on your authentic inner self
- The “belief triad” and how it will help you shift your money mindset (plus one cinematic example!)
- The psychological difference between charm pricing and prestige pricing — and how to choose which to use
- Learn more about Miriam
- Pre-order Miriam’s Book, Artpreneur (US)
- Pre-order Miriam’s Book, Artpreneur (Europe)
- Follow Miriam on Instagram
- REGISTER for a FREE 3-day Soul-Guided Planning Workshop
- DOWNLOAD a FREE Energy Upgrade Meditation to amplify your energy, dissolve the doubt, and fill your business with soul clients.
- Join our community at the Soul Guide Circle of soul-guided leaders and lightworkers
- Leave a review for Soul Guide Radio
This Weeks Invitation:
Start journaling your thoughts, journaling why you’re doing something and not doing something, and then go back and look at them.
[00:00:00] Allyson Scammell: Wow, it’s 2023. The energy available to us is powerful, so let’s make this year your year to help. I’m offering a free three-day live soul guided planning workshop from January 17 through 19 to help you craft your soul plan for 2023. I’ll be revealing my secret to turning your soul guided visions into an aligned plan that produces real and magical results.
[00:00:33] There’s a signup link in the show notes. I hope to see you there.
[00:00:40] Hello, dear ones, how many times in your life have you hidden a part of yourself that is meaningful to but you feared other people would find it weird off-putting uncomfortable? Man, I tell you, I really feel like my life before my near-death experience was basically me living in shadow. So, I didn’t feel like I was necessarily hiding, but I just wasn’t showing up as my true self, cause I didn’t know.
[00:01:21] And then I had my near-death experience and I feel like it peeled the way my shadow so my authenticity could get out. And then that was really scary cause my authentic self doesn’t really fit a mainstream mold. It goes against a lot of grains. So, I spent so many years of my life hiding my inner weirdo so I could accommodate the group.
[00:01:58] And once I stop doing that, and it is a process and it is a journey, and I’m still in the process of revealing more and more parts of my inner weirdo. And I find that when I do that from a place of real alignment, that’s when I experienced the greatest amount of soul aligned success, and this is the reason why I love today’s guest so much, and I loved our conversation. I had on my friend Miriam Schulman, an amazing business coach, an unbelievable artist, and she just wrote a fantastic book that I really recommend you get your hands on and we unpack
[00:02:48] how to embrace your inner weirdo and uncover your personal style. So, let’s go ahead and get right to it. In today’s episode, Miriam and I explore the difference between charm pricing and prestige pricing, and I think you’ll be surprised how useful this is, what the belief triad is and how it will help you raise your money mindset.
[00:03:11] and why it’s so important and results producing to embrace your inner weirdo. We’ll end on a challenge that will have you excited to share the amazing parts of yourself that you tend to hide in ways that attracts all the right people and opportunities to you. So, you’re gonna wanna stay with us until the end.
[00:03:35] Welcome to Soul Guide Radio, a podcast for soul guided leaders, influencers, and entrepreneurs here to bring about change on a massive level. We’ll explore how you can activate your big soul mission, amplify your spiritual gifts, and clear the energy blocks weighing you down so you can gain unstoppable momentum in life and business.
[00:04:00] I’m Allyson Scammell, your host and soul guide.
[00:04:10] Hey, their soul guide Circle, that is the name of this community of soul guided leaders, influencers, and entre. In this Soul Guide circle, we have big soul missions, and we yearn to earn more, serve more, and grow spiritually along the way. If you aren’t already a member, then I invite you to join our Facebook group of nearly 2200 leaders in light workers who are in service to each other and the planet.
[00:04:35] Find a link to join on my website, allysonscammell.com or in the show notes. And before we get to today’s guest, I’d love to share a listener review coming from one car guy. Four. Four, four. Car guy says five out of five. Allyson is so caring with all that she says and puts everything into such a good perspective.
[00:05:01] She is authentic and has such a good heart. This is a beautiful podcast. Aw. Thank you, car guy. I really, really appreciate it and if you receive anything at all from this podcast, I would be so grateful for a listener review. You can find a link in the show notes, and I will read your beautiful words on the air with love.
[00:05:23] Okay, today’s guest is Miriam Schulman, artist, author, and host of the Inspiration Place Podcast. She’s helped thousands of creatives around the world develop their skillsets and create more time and freedom to do what they love. Her Signature program, the Artist Incubator, teaches artists to go from so, so sales to sold out collections.
[00:05:51] I had such an amazing time connecting with Miriam, my good friend. Please enjoy.
[00:06:09] Miriam. Welcome back to Soul Guide Radio.
[00:06:12] Miriam Schulman: Well, thanks for having me, Allyson. I’m so
[00:06:15] Allyson Scammell: excited to be here. I am thrilled. I was walked my dog right before we hit record and I was like, oh my gosh, Astrid, I get to hang out with Miriam for a little bit when we get back. Yeah, she was wagging her tail. She was so excited.
[00:06:28] So you just like, let’s just launch. You just published
[00:06:31] Miriam Schulman: a book. Holy cow. Yes. So, I don’t know when this is coming out, but the book is gonna be live January 31st. I think it’s gonna be in Europe a little later, cause you know,
[00:06:45] Allyson Scammell: it’s okay. We’re used to it. We’re used
[00:06:46] Miriam Schulman: to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, right before we hit record, Allyson was asking me about, and I said, everyone should write a book because it changed.
[00:06:59] I like it. My soul evolved because of this process. That is
[00:07:04] Allyson Scammell: really, really amazing. Do you feel it was because you were landing on the right, like right book, right time. Like what, what was
[00:07:14] Miriam Schulman: it about it? No, no, it’s because it’s so hard. Mm-hmm. it’s because it real, it forces you to get really uncomfortable and face down every one of your demons.
[00:07:25] So I went the publish the traditional publishing route and I was really good. I mean I hundred percent belief. I don’t know why, because apparently, it’s very hard, but I had a hundred. This is just shows you how important belief is for your, for how you get success in the world. I had belief that I would get a publishing contract and every day I would write that down.
[00:07:48] I’m gonna get a publishing contract and very quickly, no, first it was an agent, I’m gonna get an agent and then when I narrowed it down, I’m gonna sign with Michelle. And then when I signed with with Michelle, I would write down, I’m going to, you know, get a contact. But once I got the contract, then I hadn’t thought that far ahead,
[00:08:07] And it was like, oh wait, I don’t know how to write a book. I’ve never done this before. They made a big mistake. So, all these things came in like, so I had to deal with imposter syndrome. I had to deal with who am I? Who am I? Well, imposter syndrome, the whole, who am I to? But then it’s like that, all that drama of, I’ve never done it before.
[00:08:29] So learning how well, we never did anything before. We’re all just making it up. That’s what humans do. And embracing that and, and now just playing, being more visible and playing a bigger game. So, I like to compare writing a book to being pregnant with an elephant. Yeah. And I choose elephant because elephants, I don’t know if you know this, they have very long pregnancies.
[00:08:55] Those poor elephant mamas, see, they’re like pregnant., they’re pregnant for more than a year. I wanna say it’s 14 months. I better, you know, I say it so often, I really should look up elephant pregnancy. But no, I, it’s definitely more than a year. Yeah. And if you imagine being pregnant with an elephant and then you have to give birth to an elephant.
[00:09:12] Yeah. And now, So now, so now I give, I gave birth to enough, so now I have a baby elephant. Like what do you do with that? Yeah, what do you do with that? Exactly. So, I that, that’s why I said to you that it’s like I’ve changed as a result of writing the book. I’m a different person now. Really
[00:09:30] Allyson Scammell: Beautiful. And you know, you have such a great book title.
[00:09:35] Oh, thanks. Tell us your book title.
[00:09:37] Miriam Schulman: It’s so good. It’s Art Preneur. And it is primarily for people who are creatives, so the music, the dance, musicians, dancers, poets, artists, and most of my examples do come from the visual art world since that is my niche. But much of, much of the book is more expansive because we’re, we’re dealing with how to run a business and what’s true
[00:10:07] in the business world is true in the art world, even though us artists think we’re unicorns, we’re really not. It’s really all the same. So, yeah,
[00:10:14] Allyson Scammell: uh, that’s really, I’m really excited to get my hands on this book and this episode will go live right before it is out in the world, so the timing is fantastic and a lot of the listeners of this podcast are coach or healer types, and I imagine we would receive a lot from this book as well.
[00:10:35] Miriam Schulman: so our colleague, our friend Whitney McNeil interviewed me, and she like, was like, okay, I want all my people to read this too, because yeah, but yeah, it is a business book for creatives, so you can insert that your art is healing, your art is psychic mediumship. Your art is whatever it is you want.
[00:10:56] That’s why I said it’s like my, yeah, my I, the people I coach are artists, but it is an expansive book. It is an inclusive book. Yeah.
[00:11:05] Allyson Scammell: Yeah. Beautiful. And I’ve had you on the show now a couple times and you are just a good, I love the way you look at business. I love the way you approach it. I love your ideas, the way you talk about.
[00:11:16] And you’ve got a great business mind for whatever, whatever offering is on the table. And you’re an amazing artist. So, thank you. All of this and one amazing, beautiful person. So, I want to reveal to the listeners, some of the listeners may not know a little podcast practice, but I wanna reveal this because I really wanna compliment you.
[00:11:38] So typically how it works when I wanna be on say, Miriam’s podcast. I don’t know how, I don’t, I don’t know exactly how you do it, but I will say, hi, here I am. Here are some topics I wanna talk about and here are some suggested questions, right? And so, the host can agree to take those suggested questions or not.
[00:11:55] And Miriam, we always ask our guests, do you have any suggested questions? She very nicely provided me some, and these are the best suggested questions I have like ever seen because usually I don’t know how you are your people on Miriam, but usually the suggested questions are pretty bad. Like, oh yeah, yeah.
[00:12:14] It’s like, tell me about your life journey. It’s like,
[00:12:18] Miriam Schulman: oh, they’re awful. They’re awful and the other thing is, is when there’s only like five of them and you’re like, okay, so my interview’s gonna be exactly the same as, everyone else’s. Everyone else’s. So what I did was, there’s a lot, I should have
[00:12:33] Allyson Scammell done that sheet lift it. (inaudible)
[00:12:35] I’m () gonna go that way. Larry Candy, (inaudible) it’s me. I like, I’m just giving
[00:12:39] Miriam Schulman: you ingredients and you can make your own gourmet meal, you know, with whatever you want. Because it’s like you know your audience. You’re gonna know which questions are. What you wanna ask me and what’s gonna resonate with, um, and you know Yeah,
[00:12:54] making you work a little harder that way. Giving you a whole bunch of them.
[00:12:57] Allyson Scammell: Like, it was beautiful, and I kept thinking, oh my gosh, I wanna ask that one and that one and that one. I think I’m, I wanna like, this is gonna be like a seven core soup to nuts and I’m a little bit selfish here because like I want, it’s really amazing your questions cause you’re asking questions that I’ve been literally like specifically thinking about recently for myself and like trying to find answers for myself.
[00:13:19] So I was like, oh, oh, I’m gonna put Miriam to work and I’m just gonna fire gun these, are you ready?
[00:13:25] Miriam Schulman: Yeah, let’s hope you ask one where I know the answer. . .
[00:13:29] Allyson Scammell: Okay. I love this first one. I wanna ask about the charm pricing. Cause I, okay. I like that one. I’ve been racking my brain on this. Is this the right thing to do or not?
[00:13:38] So charm pricing is those prices that end in nine, nine. Yes. Like, here’s a coaching program for 9 99 instead of a thousand. Right. Okay. So, you
[00:13:47] Miriam Schulman: want me to talk? Okay. So really, we have to talk about, there’s two ways of pricing. There’s charm pricing and there’s prestige pricing. So, we’re gonna talk about prestige pricing, cause that doesn’t get talked about enough and that’s what I really want your listeners to hear.
[00:14:03] But let’s talk about charm pricing versus what we’re all familiar with. You walk into a big box store and it’s $1499 for Yes, right. Or whatever it is. Yeah. Or you go buy an online class and it’s $497. Yes. Yes. So, the practice of doing that, they call it charm because that our customers will perceive the value in the 400.
[00:14:25] So that’s what’s called charm pricing. However, the other thing it does, which is why you have to be careful about when you use it. So, pricing to the penny. And you have American listeners too, right? So, they know about Walmart. Okay. So, like at Walmart, they price everything to the penny because they have nickel and dime minded customers, and they’re telling their customers, we know you’re counting every penny.
[00:14:49] And so are we. Okay. So now if you are selling something like a high-end coaching package, what, what are some of the other things that your listeners sell
[00:15:02] Allyson Scammell: one-on-one coaching online courses, high-end Masterminds, retreats. Okay. Things like that.
[00:15:09] Miriam Schulman: Yeah, so high-end Masterminds, retreats. You know what? You don’t wanna attract penny pictures to your high-end coaching packages.
[00:15:18] Okay. But she, but so that’s something that’s less than number one that you, it’s like you’ve gotta be careful about that. But the other thing that comes in, which is so important, and there’s research around this, it’s called prestige pricing. So researchers have found that people were more likely to buy a bottle of champagne when it was priced at $40, even four zero.zero zero.
[00:15:41] Then if it was priced at $38 and whatever, 97 cents or $41 and something something cents. So why is that? Because when prices are that charm pricing, it’s processed by the logical side of the brain. When numbers are rounded, it’s processed by the feeling side of the brain. Ooh, the
[00:16:09] Allyson Scammell: intuitive side. So
[00:16:10] Miriam Schulman: yes. So, when you’re selling something like art, like healing, like psychic mediumship, which side of the brain do you want your customers using?
[00:16:22] A lot of times it’s the emotional side of the brain because they’re gonna make a higher investment when they’re buying with their emotions.
[00:16:31] Allyson Scammell: This is insane. My entire career I did prestige pricing without even knowing it, but I was always just like, I didn’t wanna do like the 99 97 and I just started, and I don’t even know why.
[00:16:43] I think the coach I’m working with a coach now who does it. She does the 99, 97. So I just, I just started doing this and I’m, I’m. I’m going back to my zero zero endings. Well, okay, so
[00:16:55] Miriam Schulman: here’s, here’s when I, when I use, when I, when I decide to use one versus the other, when I’m selling anything up to $2,000, okay?
[00:17:04] Okay. And then the other thing I talk about in the book is that I end the numbers with the seven because the ending with the nine signals value pricing and the seven is processes a more as a friendlier number. Okay, so there’s all
[00:17:24] Allyson Scammell: of psychology. Like this though. I, I think like consumer psychology even cuz this is a very spiritual crowd, and they tend to be like, well I’m spiritual so I don’t do consumer psychology, but like it works.
[00:17:37] So just knowing some tips and tricks, you don’t have to have it all figured out, but just knowing these little, these little kind of hacks, if you will, not hacks, what’s the word? These little insights can really, I think, really lead to conversions.
[00:17:50] Miriam Schulman: I think it’s about understanding the way your customers are thinking and having empathy for how they think.
[00:17:59] Mm-hmm. So, it’s not about tricking them, but having compassion for if you present them with a number. Is gonna make them feel a certain way. So that’s what it’s about. So, if you wanna take it to that level, it’s not about tricking anybody, right? Right. It’s about having compassion for how they; they show up in the world.
[00:18:19] Allyson Scammell: Love it. And so, up to 2000, anything 2000 over, you recommend prestige? Well,
[00:18:25] Miriam Schulman: if it’s an online class or coaching package, I use the ending of 97. When it’s a piece of artwork, let’s say it’s $400. I don’t do the 4 97 or the 3 97. I just say 400. Got it. Because with art, I always want them to use the emotional side of the brain.
[00:18:45] Allyson Scammell: So that’s just maybe a question like that you can ask yourself, is this offering more prestige? Is this offering more charm? And then take it from there.
[00:18:55] Miriam Schulman: Is it a luxury
[00:18:56] Allyson Scammell: purchase? Yes. I like it. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, love. All right, I’m gonna go down. I’m gonna go down my list here. Most gurus advise you to believe in yourself and your product.
[00:19:12] Will you talk about the belief triad? Miriam? I wanna know what this belief triad is and how it helps you raise your money Mindset. I
[00:19:21] Miriam Schulman: love this. Okay, so this is my intellectual property cuz somebody was asking me, where did you learn this? I was like, honey, I made it up. He goes, all right, so this is yours.
[00:19:31] That’s mine. Yes. So, the belief triad is you have to love yourself. That’s kind of a duh. You have to love your art; what it is you’re selling. But what people don’t talk about is you have to love your buyer. So that is the third part of the triad. I
[00:19:50] Allyson Scammell: love that. You know, I am. You gotta love yourself, your product and your buyer.
[00:19:56] Miriam Schulman: Yeah. And I have a great story about loving your buyer, except it may not resonate for our younger people,
[00:20:02] Allyson Scammell: well, that’s me. That, that’s okay that I, my
[00:20:05] Miriam Schulman: friend said to me, you know, all your references are from the nineties.
[00:20:09] Allyson Scammell: Well, I will understand them all right.
[00:20:12] Miriam Schulman: Okay, so did you see the woman, the movie Pretty Woman?
[00:20:15] Of course. Uh, thank God. Okay, so like a million
[00:20:18] Allyson Scammell: times.
[00:20:19] Miriam Schulman: I will, don’t explain it to my young, to the younger listeners who are, listen, who are with us at this table right now. Okay, so Richard Gere and Julie Roberts. Okay. See the movie, there’s some cringey moments, but just watch it. Oh, all right. So, she, so she.
[00:20:35] We’ll put the link in the reference. Okay, she plays a hooker and Richard Gere decides that he needs an escort not in this, not in the that way, but in the actual, like somebody to like be his companion during his business lunches. So, he, he says, here, here’s my gold card. Go to Rodeo Drive. Get yourself some better-looking clothes.
[00:20:57] But she’s still wearing her street walker clothes and she walks into a boutique, and they won’t wait on her. So, then she goes, of course, to another boutique. They wait on her. She comes back to the boutique with the mean salespeople and says, you guys work on commission, right? Mm-hmm. And now she’s dressed gorgeously.
[00:21:19] You know, she’s wearing all the things with the hat. With the hat, yeah. Which nobody wears. All types of bags. Yeah. And if you work on commission, right, she goes, big mistake. Mistake. Now big time. Here’s the thing, Allyson how many times have we been those mean salespeople and thought, oh, she doesn’t have the money.
[00:21:37] Oh, she’s not gonna pay for this coaching package. They don’t wanna pay for this. They don’t wanna pay that much for this. We are being that mean salesperson in pretty women. We are not believing in our buyer. We are not loving our buyer. When we think those thoughts about them, when we think they don’t have enough money, when they think they don’t wanna spend the money on.
[00:21:59] You have to love your buyer. You have to believe in your buyer.
[00:22:04] Allyson Scammell: That is an amazing analogy, and I just think of how many times that I was in a sales conversation, and I tend to ba, most of my offerings are on the higher end. I don’t have a lot of lower end offerings. So, and, I, you know, just assuming, oh, this person’s not gonna have
[00:22:20] these five figures to invest in this. And then at the end they’re like, yeah, I wanna sign up. And I always feel like a schmuck at the end. Like, why did I make that assumption that was not cool of me? Yeah. So, this is such a good analogy, and I’m getting certified in human design right now. I am in level three.
[00:22:38] And one thing I’ll just add to your triad from a human design perspective is that we have this magnetic monopole in our heart chakra space, and that basically attracts all of our desires to us. And it comes from our will center and our G center, which is basically the two parts of our heart chakra
[00:22:58] and the biggest magnetization of our heart chakra to magnetize our desires to us is loving ourselves. Yeah, it really starts there, that self-love and that’s what is the catalyst to a start attracting the things we want into our experience, such as clients, such as sales.
[00:23:18] Miriam Schulman: Okay. And since this is a spiritual podcast, so this isn’t in my book at all, but I’ve been studying Kabbala recently.
[00:23:25] Oh yeah. Okay. So, the way that’s like a Jewish spiritual practice and the way we see the universe is like I’m a leaf on a tree. And Allyson, you’re a leaf on the same tree. So, loving yourself is also loving all the other humans, cuz we’re all part of the divine. We’re all part, divine is in all of us, and we’re all part of like the same tree.
[00:23:48] So of course I’m gonna love you cuz your part, cuz we’re all part of the same thing. So that, that is also part of it as well. Like of course you’re gonna love your buyer. And I can tell you Allyson there are times when I’ve been on sales calls when I decided in the beginning, oh, I love this, this, this person
[00:24:05] and those people I close and if I have those thoughts come in, oh, I don’t really like them anyway. I don’t close them. Now, some people say, oh, well they weren’t in alignment and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, maybe, or maybe it’s because you weren’t loving your buyer and you were, you’re that reticular function was looking for what you didn’t like, and they pick up on that.
[00:24:24] Yeah, totally.
[00:24:26] Allyson Scammell: Ah, I love the belief triad, and I am going to, I am going to shift into some greater love and loving my offerings. I think that’s been a big one for me this year as I’ve done a pivot away from like, oh, I’m a spiritual business coach to more, I’m a spiritual mentor and doing more like spiritual coaching instead of just like business coaching, and I had to overcome a lot of limiting belief.
[00:24:51] People aren’t, people will invest a lot of money for a business coach, but not a spiritual coach. Mm-hmm. So, I’m gonna have to lower my prices, I’m gonna have to do all this stuff. And that was just wrong. Like I, I learned over and over again that that was wrong, and I really found an offering for the first time in my career I think
[00:25:10] Of I, I launched, a program this fall and I just love it. I love it inside and out and I’ve never really experienced that level of love for an offering before. I love that. That’s great. Yeah, so believe triad, that’s some seriously powerful stuff, and I really believe for listeners, if you start shifting into that love before a sales conversation, before a lunch, you are gonna see some serious
[00:25:35] upticks in your conversions. I definitely have seen that in my experience. All right. Going on these questions, great questions and great answers. So, and I’m just reading them, but that’s okay. I’m not That’s fine. Putting my unique twist on it.
[00:25:51] Miriam Schulman: But you know, what you’re doing is you are telling the, our listeners that you value their.
[00:25:59] By like a asking like question going down the list. And they don’t mind I don’t
[00:26:02] Allyson Scammell: think. No, no. Cuz these are, this is such good stuff. Okay. Okay. Everyone wants to know how to build a signature brand and you have a very specific method you teach called Teach on This called Embrace your Inner Weirdo, which is what we’re calling this episode.
[00:26:19] So tell us more.
[00:26:21] Miriam Schulman: It’s, it’s a whole chapter. So, I will give you, I’ll give you only pieces from it rather than like, you know, I recorded my audiobook yesterday and it took two days to record it. That that was intense. Yeah. And there, there were certain parts I was like, I should have changed that.
[00:26:42] Okay. But not the embrace your inner weirdo. I love this chapter. This is all about when people come to me, and they do art that’s kind of different. They’re nervous. They’re like, you know, I have this art and it’s kind of weird. And like the best art in the world is produced by us weirdos. You got to lean into that 100%.
[00:27:03] And now if you go through anything that’s popular, What? What you’ll see is that they’re always pushing up against what the trend that came before it. They are a reaction to it, or they are. Pushing against it. Now you see that in politics we swing back and forth. You see that in in music. So, one of the examples I give in there is like during the, again, here’s from the nineties, so we had the Nirvana and the Kurt Cobain with his cock rock, and then immediately following that as Alanis Morrisette, who was like pushing up against that with like what it means to be a woman.
[00:27:41] So pushing against these, these boundaries. can be very challenging for us as humans, especially as people pleasers, because we know we’re gonna alienate people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But that’s exactly what you wanna do. Because if you’re going for the middle, first of all, nobody cares about the middle. That’s boring.
[00:28:03] You know, there’s no money in the middle. But if you’re going for the middle, you never attract those super fans. Sure, you won’t have as many haters, but you’ll never get those super fans that you really
[00:28:13] Allyson Scammell: want. So good. Yes, and I think very relevant for the spiritual crowd because I think a lot of us, you know, we are worried that what people will think like, oh, you know, I’m talking to spirit guides.
[00:28:30] I’m astral projecting, I’m doing all this stuff that isn’t talked about in mainstream conversation, and you tend to wanna hide that. And that’s the stuff that your people are looking for.
[00:28:42] Miriam Schulman: Yeah, go to that place. That’s weird. Go to that place. That’s different. So, what I also talk about in the book is the origin of the word weird.
[00:28:50] So that word is from Scotland. And for those of us who studied MacBeth there were the weird sisters, but the word did, Yeah, mean the same thing as it means today. It meant fate or destiny. Remember the weird sisters predicted Macbeths fate? That was a very pivotal moment in the book. So, what happened is over time, as the supernatural became vilified, it took on a negative connotation.
[00:29:19] But really what’s weird is your destiny. So, you wanna
[00:29:24] Allyson Scammell be weird. I am just, my heart is exploding right now. Yes. You
[00:29:30] Miriam Schulman: wanna be weird. And it’s all those things that make us quirky and different is what we need to be talking about. Yes. So, you talk about Astrid, your Greyhound, and not everybody has a greyhound.
[00:29:44] Allyson Scammell: should, but I get it. yes, yes, yes, yes. This is just I never knew where the word weird came from. I never. I’m just sort of letting that mind
[00:29:57] Miriam Schulman: blown, right?
[00:29:59] Allyson Scammell: Yes. That’s because I was, I kind of feel like, oh, you know, part of my mission cuz I’m a pretty like, practical person. I like earning money. I like buying nice clothes.
[00:30:08] I like living in nice houses. I’m not your typical like spiritual guru wearing long robes and living a life of whatever, I don’t know, whatever the stereotype is. I like luxury things and I like to succeed, and I like to help others. So one of my taglines has been like, oh, well I’m here to make spiritual discourse, part of mainstream conversation.
[00:30:36] So it’s not seen as weird, but I think it’s better to say, yeah, it’s weird and we’re all, let’s be weird together. It’ll be my version of weird. It’ll be your version of weird. It’s weird. Exactly.
[00:30:47] Miriam Schulman: So, you’re giving people permission. I mean, I love to talk about Harry Potter. I’m a Potter head, but not, and not everybody is, but I, by doing that, I’m giving other people, I’m giving the person listening out there who maybe is, I don’t know, plays.
[00:31:03] What’s the dungeon and dragons that that game? Yeah. You’re giving other people permission to lean into their quirks. Yes. Right. You know, you have a greyhound that’s a little more mainstream. Maybe somebody has a pet. Let’s talk about it. Whatever it is that makes you special, weird and different. No, not everyone’s gonna, that is how actually we develop our signature brands.
[00:31:28] So that’s what that chapter really is about. It’s, you know, embrace, I call it embrace your inner weirdo. Every single chapter title is an affirmation or a mantra that people have to embody. So, embrace your inner weirdo. That’s one of them. But the chapter is really about how do you create your signature brand, and it’s all about leaning into
[00:31:48] those quirks, those idiosyncrasies, your values, that’s huge. Not being afraid to share what you believe in, whatever that is. Yeah. Yes. You’ll alienate people you want to, because that’s the only way you’re gonna attract your super fans.
[00:32:06] Allyson Scammell: Wow. This is so good. So, I feel like, cause I feel like there’s some listeners, I, I have, I’m, I’m stuck on this a little bit and I feel like there’s some listeners who might be with.
[00:32:15] I feel like I’ve embraced my inner weirdo in my business really, really well with my community. My community knows me and I wave my weirdo flag to them, but I have this weird thing, it’s a hangup that I, I feel like as long as I’ve been in business, I should be over this by now, but I’m still not, I do not post anything of a spiritual nature on my personal Facebook page, I only post on my Facebook group and my biz and my Instagram.
[00:32:45] Which is business because I fear, and this is so silly, I fear what, I grew up on a small town in rural South Dakota on a farm, and I fear what that small group of people will think from like my childhood.
[00:33:02] Miriam Schulman: Okay, Alison, you really think they don’t see all that other stuff you’re posting cause you’re in fantasy land like,
[00:33:11] Allyson Scammell: no, I don’t.
[00:33:12] This is like a weird thing.
[00:33:14] Miriam Schulman: I see it. I’m not saying you should post your spiritual stuff on your personal wall or not because I, I basically don’t post anything on my personal, I think I posted something the other day and it was; I saw it was over a year. Cause I just like, don’t, I’m
[00:33:27] Allyson Scammell: like that don’t too, I don’t care.
[00:33:29] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, I
[00:33:30] Miriam Schulman: have my news, I have my news feed turned off for Facebook, so I don’t know anything that’s going on, like whose dog died and. I have no idea. It’s
[00:33:40] Allyson Scammell: too, yeah. Yeah. I basically just use it for
[00:33:43] Miriam Schulman: business. It’s, I don’t post anything, but, okay. There’s,
[00:33:46] Allyson Scammell: yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[00:33:48] Miriam Schulman: I’m hoping Twitter blows up, by the way.
[00:33:51] it’s with me. Me,
[00:33:54] Allyson Scammell: so, I guess that’s okay. But I think that I need hundred. Like just get over that because who cares if they see it. I mean, who cares? Are they gonna buy my, my programs from me? What makes me, well,
[00:34:08] Miriam Schulman: you’re from South Dakota, you’re this way. How do you know you’re the only one? What, what makes you think you’re such a unicorn?
[00:34:15] Well, I’m not
[00:34:15] Allyson Scammell: such a unicorn cause I, I mean, a few
[00:34:17] Miriam Schulman: clients, Dakota, South Dakota, there’s not a lot of people. I think that’s the one state where I, I don’t have any art collectors. I used to track like every state I’d put a pin in as soon as I sold a piece of art. It’s like, well I guess cuz there’s not a lot of people there, you know, we have more
[00:34:30] Allyson Scammell: cows than people.
[00:34:32] Yeah, but I do have a couple of clients from South Dakota, so that’s already, there you go. Right? I
[00:34:37] Miriam Schulman: know exactly. We all already have proof. And so that is something that I do a lot in this book. I call it thought work, is looking at what these limiting beliefs are and is it all or nothing thinking, are you fortune telling?
[00:34:51] Are you mindreading? So, all or nothing thinking, which mean, and then you gotta question it. Is it really true? And then meanwhile it isn’t true because you are, you said, well, I do have. I do have some other unicorns in my program. So,
[00:35:05] Allyson Scammell: yes. So that’s that. So, when you’re thinking about embracing your weirdo watch, even always watching the thought work, watching the belief systems, if it’s taking you off your,
[00:35:16] Miriam Schulman: your track, right?
[00:35:19] Yeah. Yeah. So, the problem is not what you’re, I mean, I, I think it’s just because you don’t post on your, on your personal page. Yeah. Which I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t do
[00:35:29] Allyson Scammell: it. Right, right, right. But that I don’t, yeah. Okay. Yes. Thank you. That was super, super helpful. Okay. And this, okay, so I picked this one.
[00:35:39] Okay. I’ll just ask the question. You’ve helped thousands of artists sell more art, and you say the key to building the key is to build their email list. Why do you believe the future of marketing is email, social media? And I’m really excited to hear what you have to say, and I just wanna say why I’m.
[00:35:57] Eager to know is because I believe this as well and my, like my baby is my email list. And that’s the first, that’s the thing I give the most time and attention. It’s the only thing I do not outsource to a different copywriter. I write every word myself. This is just my, my, my primary community. And I just spent a week, I just went on this retreat, and I was with a bunch of amazing, amazing women and they were all like Instagram influencer.
[00:36:25] and I just never been around that before. And I, I love it for them. And they were in their element doing their thing, doing what they love, and, and it was great for them, but I was just like, oh, I can’t do that. I just, it’s just not me. So, like everybody’s embracing their inner weirdo differently and I. I just can’t be on my phone that
[00:36:45] Miriam Schulman: much.
[00:36:46] No, no. I, that’s, that’s the thing. I don’t think artists should be on their phone. No.
[00:36:51] Allyson Scammell: Well, that’s what
[00:36:52] Miriam Schulman: she was saying. It’s like I don’t waste my time telling my friends what they don’t care about anyway. You know, they really cared. They, they’ll come over to my professional stuff, you know, I’m not gonna like, exactly.
[00:37:02] Okay. So yes. So anyway, many things here. So many. Okay, so when I handed in my manuscript, I made case for email over social media, and one of the development mental editors gave me a lot of pushback. And then when you get edits back from the book, especially when they are pushing back on your message, you have to decide, hmm, do I, do I listen to what this criticism is, or do I take it as an invitation to
[00:37:36] Harder and deeper on this to really prove this point. And that was one of them. So she was, this person was saying, oh, well I guess this woman is in her fifties and that’s why she doesn’t do social, doesn’t believe in social media and blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, oh my God. That’s not the reason. So obviously I didn’t make my case strong enough.
[00:37:55] So after those comments came back, I made the case even stronger, and I went and. You’re just gonna use the word influencers. I went and found quotes from people like Ryan Dice, who is the traffic and conversion bro marketing King and Marie Foleo, who’s the queen over there, who both said they feel the future of marketing is email.
[00:38:18] Now let’s talk about why we’re gonna dive into the numbers.
[00:38:21] Allyson Scammell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love
[00:38:22] Miriam Schulman: numbers. Okay. And your listeners could not see the face I made when you, and you may not have there when you said Instagram influencers. I just looked like I smelled something really bad. Okay. All right, so here are the statistics.
[00:38:38] The average engagement rate for your posts on Instagram is not 60%, not 6% 0.0 point. Zero 6%. Whoa. Pathetic. Now, influencers, uh, actually I think it’s 6% and I can, I can look it up. Exactly. The only reason I, that’s less than 1%. It’s less than 1%. Influencers. Fair? Slightly better. Theirs isn’t 6%, it’s 1%.
[00:39:11] It’s 1% for an influencer. Wow. So, what does that mean? If you have 10,000. Fans. That means only a hundred people. This 1% if you’re an influencer, wow. Why would you waste your time with that? Now, if you’re gonna send an email, let’s say you don’t even have a high open rate. The average open rate is 18% and you have 10,000 people.
[00:39:39] On your email list, that means that 1,800 people have seen what you have to say. Now, here’s the big, biggest difference, Alison, on Instagram, the algorithm decides whether or not your follower sees the post on email. Your reader decides whether or not they’re gonna open it, and you have a little more control over that.
[00:40:06] Allyson Scammell: Wow. Yes. Oh my gosh. This is just like; I feel like I’m like breathing a sigh of relief. I feel the listeners like, ah, because the listeners of this podcast are not, they’re not the Instagram influencers and, and most of ’em have a very tortured relationship with social media. Yeah, I mean like I can for years, and I sort of figured it out.
[00:40:31] But then, then, then I think it gets tortured it like I sort of figured out Facebook and I liked Facebook, and I was getting clients from Facebook, and then I was like, but oh my gosh, but I should be on Instagram and I should be on TikTok and I should be like, I started shooting on myself. And then you can really go down the rabbit hole.
[00:40:47] Miriam Schulman: Yeah. No, the social media rabbit hole is big. You really don’t have to do any of it. That’s amazing. I, I mean, I was focused mostly, or I shouldn’t say past tense. I am focused mostly on the Facebook advertising, Instagram advertising, but even that, now I’m starting to question because I had a bunch of clients come in, sign up for my program over the weekend, and I’ve been, I look at them one by one and I’m seeing they’re not being recorded.
[00:41:17] The Facebook business manager, and I think I’m getting the clients from doing podcasts because I’m promoting my book. So even that now, I’m starting to question that belief like, do I even really need to be spending all this money on ads? Yeah. Like, is this really where my customers are coming from? I don’t think they are.
[00:41:36] Allyson Scammell: I, I mean, I am taking a break. I’m a person who figured out Facebook ads and I would get; I would get cold leads from Facebook and turn them around to be like a private. So, I, I, I had such a good, I had got such a return on investment on Facebook ads. I got a little too dependent on them and a little too, I think addicted is probably a good word.
[00:41:58] Not addicted, that’s not the right word. But I think No, it,
[00:42:00] Miriam Schulman: it’s, it is cuz I, right, but you’re using it in past tense. So, what’s
[00:42:04] Allyson Scammell: happened? So, I was still getting good leads, so I shouldn’t even say that. I was still getting leads from Facebook ads, but they weren’t converting, like, I wasn’t getting those high conversion rates.
[00:42:14] And then I was. And, and I, I realized that I was getting, I think, what are good leads, but it’s gonna take a long time. They’re not gonna turn into a client overnight. So, the Facebook lead is coming in and then I have to do a whole connecting, you know, take some time to really connect to this person and that’s okay.
[00:42:33] But then I said, well, let me experiment with this. Let me stop doing ads for a while and I do a ton of guesting, summit speaking, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And. I’ve, I’m, I’m spending zero ads on this right now and I just, like, November and December were my biggest income months for the year with running no ads.
[00:42:54] Miriam Schulman: that’s what I’m saying. Like, I’m still running ads cause I’m still, I’m afraid to stop to turn them off, but I don’t think that’s where my grants are coming
[00:43:04] Allyson Scammell: so, I know could, I’m not money. My, my mailing list isn’t growing as fast without the ads. I’m, I’m getting the clients coming in. I’m getting more clients.
[00:43:17] I’m getting more paying clients. Yeah. And they’re all coming in from, oh, I saw you on so-and-so’s podcast. I was in this training thing that you were in, you know, So I’m, I’ll see, I’ll see what happens. But I was just like so frustrated with Facebook ads. I’m like, I gotta take a break. So, I’m gonna take a break.
[00:43:33] I’ll probably start up again in 2023, but I’m really gonna just look at them for new leads. Like, it’s just gonna be my, one of the ways I get new leads. And then anything, anything to get someone in my community, transforming them into a client, I’m gonna, you know, do the old-fashioned way. That old, no, like trust factor, love.
[00:43:54] I don’t know. We’ll see. Okay. But yeah. Yeah. So, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see what, we’ll see what 20, 23 holds, but I think that a lot, a lot of people I’ve talked to, a lot of my peers have had weird, a weird year with their online ads and have had to rethink it and at least re rejigger it a little bit, if not a lot.
[00:44:14] Yeah, so I think like having your mailing list will help you whether, whether I don’t wanna call it a storm, but whether these changes in the market. You know, ads are working one day, the next day. They’re sort of wonky, but hey, you’ve got your list and that’s your, like, to me, that’s like your primary group of peeps.
[00:44:33] Miriam Schulman: Yeah. And so, Facebook ads is not the only way to build your list. So, there are three ways that I talk about building your list. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Let’s, let’s go there. Let’s go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. There’s three ways and there’s only three ways. So, there is your platform. So, Alison, I’m sure you get a lot of people who find your podcast and then they become clients.
[00:44:50] So your platform is. Whatever it is you use, but it’s more than that. I like, so when I tell artists you may not have a podcast, your universe, it’s just everyone you interact with. It’s people you know from South Dakota. It is your, your friends from high school. It’s your, it’s your neighbors. It’s everyone you come in contact with.
[00:45:10] That’s online or in person. That’s your universe. Then you move. other people’s universes. So that is like what you’re saying, going on to someone else’s podcast. We’re basically talking about publicity and for this category we’re talking. Free publicity. So earned earned publicity. So, you’re on someone’s summit, you get, maybe you put it a press release in your local paper, maybe you get an interview.
[00:45:36] And I wanna also give examples that are not just for people who have podcasts. So, for my artist, I said to start local, get, get an article in your local paper. It’s much easier to do than you think because people aren’t trying to get these opportunities and they’re looking for images and they’re looking for stories.
[00:45:53] So, Number two is publicity. And the third way is what we were just finished talking about is paid advertising. So paid advertising can paint the form of Facebook and Instagram ads, but it can also take the form of taking an ad out in the magazine. So, there I, in my world, in the visual art world, there is this artist, Mitchell Johnson, and the reason I know about him is for years he had color ads in New York Times magazine.
[00:46:21] Must be working for him because those are very expensive ads. So, you can take out, take out advertising. And I’ve had clients, one of my clients, Elizabeth Murky, she took out a paid ad. She spent, I forget what it is now, I think, I wanna say it’s $750, but it was under a thousand dollars. She took out a series of paid ads and a collector magazine, but as part of that, she also negotiated with them, hey, if I take out these ads, will you also do a feature?
[00:46:48] and as a result of that, she sold $9,500 of art. So paid advertising, not just the Maita advertising, not just the TikTok advertising. There’s other kinds of advertising. So, there we go. Those are the three ways, your universe. We also call that organic. Then the second way is other people’s universes and paid.
[00:47:10] Allyson Scammell: Love it. And so good. Whatever you choose to put some energy in that to get some folks on that mailing list and you will re, you will really like whether, you know, I know a lot of people in, a lot of listeners here probably wanna do ads, but they feel intimidated. I would just say start small. When I first started doing Facebook ads, they did not return at all.
[00:47:33] And then in a little bit of time I kind of figured it out and then I was getting huge returns. and that was great until that didn’t work. And now, you know, you shift and you try something new. And now I’m putting a lot of my eggs in the partnership basket getting into other people’s universes. Yeah. So you, you shift around and, and that’s good.
[00:47:49] That’s business. Right. And
[00:47:51] Miriam Schulman: Allison, when did those ads turn on you? Is that in early 2021 when Apple changed? It’s Oh, it was before that,
[00:48:00] Allyson Scammell: after, for me, it was early this year. Oh, okay. It was early. This. So I wonder if it kind of coincided when I was doing a pivot in my business and it could have been a reflection of that.
[00:48:12] When I stopped focus on business coaching, I started focusing spiritual mentorship.
[00:48:17] Miriam Schulman: Oh, well there you go. You have to change the advertising and the message. Yeah. And the target audiences. Yes.
[00:48:22] Allyson Scammell: Yeah. So, well, geez, could it be that simple? Miriam, come on, I’m gonna over complicate this.
[00:48:28] Miriam Schulman: That’s right, Well, it sounds like you don’t need it, so it doesn’t matter.
[00:48:33] Allyson Scammell: But yeah, so. It was a good lesson for me because I was getting a little overly dependent on them. So, I’m, I’m in a way, I’m glad it happened. Okay. So, oh my gosh, I could keep talking to you. I do have more questions, but we are at time, and I suspect you have other things on your agenda for today than just talking to me.
[00:48:52] So I would love for you, Miriam, to leave our listeners with an invitation.
[00:48:58] Miriam Schulman: All right. So, I’m gonna invite you to start journal. Journaling your thoughts, journaling why you’re doing something and not doing something, and then go back and look at them. So, I hope, Allyson, you don’t mind if I pick on you. So, things, you know, some things that you say, even you said, oh, I have this weird thought.
[00:49:22] So like, write things down and then you, that’s the, when you write things down, you can go back and read it as if it’s not you, and look at it and see what you’re saying to yourself, because the words you say to yourself do matter. So, what’s wrong with the weird thought? You know? It’s like, okay. Or. Oh yeah.
[00:49:39] I don’t want people, people in South Dakota aren’t interested in this, but, but you have clients in South Dakota, so examine your thinking. Are you fortune telling? Are you mindreading? Are you doing all or nothing? Thinking? Look at your thoughts and see which ones aren’t serving you. And if you could choose some more empowering thoughts that you wanna choose to believe, because we are the only ones who think in our minds.
[00:50:02] Therefore, we get to choose what we.
[00:50:04] Allyson Scammell: Brilliant challenge, invitation. I love that. I have really just kind of revitalized my journal journaling practice. Recently I got a gift from our friend Patty Lennon, sent me her Make Space for Magic journal, which I really like, and that got me all a journaling again after kind of not journaling for a while.
[00:50:24] So I, I’m just loving it. So now is really a great time to journal, you know, from, Spiritual perspective. You know, 2023 is really about a year about getting really clear about all the things Miriam was talking about. What are your values? What is the work you wanna be doing? What are the stories, the true stories you wanna be telling about yourself?
[00:50:44] And journaling is a beautiful, beautiful practice to help you get that clarity and to notice when you’re telling stories about yourself, you don’t wanna be telling. So, I love it, Miriam, I know there are people out there who are gonna wanna get their hands on your book and learn more about you and get into your world.
[00:51:02] How can they find all of these ways to connect to you? Okay,
[00:51:05] Miriam Schulman: so, if you like the conversation we had today, I invite you to come listen to the Inspiration Place podcast. Allyson was interviewed on it. She was amazing. Hi, and of course, pick up your copy of Art Preneur. I have some reader pre-order goodies.
[00:51:24] You can come find firstname.lastname@example.org on same url, schulman art slash book.com. Somebody complained that the other URL gets some. I don’t know. Ah, okay. You know, one of those, like, this is the website that’s collecting our information. I was like, well, it just goes over here. Yes, So, so go over there. And if you’re in Europe, book depository.com offers free worldwide shipping.
[00:51:50] So it doesn’t, we don’t care where you order your book from. Just put in your, your name, your email, and your order number. So, I talked about the affirmations. There is actually a 12-part video series where I talk about each one of those chapter titles, and I do a spread in my art journal. So, you’ll have that.
[00:52:09] There’s three coaching calls with me and I forget what else is on that page, but you’ll wanna get your hands in all those. Pre-order goodies.
[00:52:19] Allyson Scammell: Nice, beautiful. And thank you for the tip on. My, for those of us not in the US we often get, have a hard time getting our hands on stuff without paying a thousand dollars in shipping.
[00:52:31] So we will leave all of those links in the show notes. And Miriam, I’m so inspired by you. What a fantastic time we just spent together. I personally learned so much. I’m very excited to read your book and thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us today on Soul Guide Radio.
[00:52:49] Miriam Schulman: Thanks for having me, and I just wanna thank our listeners for being with us here today,
[00:53:05] Allyson Scammell: and thank you so much. Dear listener, for tuning in. I am gonna get my hands on Miriam’s book. I am so excited to do that, and I really invite you to do the. And as always, until next time, may your soul guide the way.
[00:53:26] Are you ready to fill your business with soul clients in the next 60 days? Then download my free energy upgrade meditation to amp up your energy frequency, dissolve the doubt, and attract the soul clients you are destined to serve. Find the link to download on my website, allysonscammmell.com, as well as in the show notes.
00:01 Intro & listener review
05:30 Meet Miriam Schulman
10:51 Suggested questions
12:54 Charm v. prestige pricing
18:30 The belief triad
25:31 Building a signature brand
28:13 Origin of “weird” & embracing your weirdness
31:34 Thought work & all-or-nothing thinking
35:06 Email list v. social media v. ads
44:00 3 ways to build your list
48:09 Invitation & conclusion