She Grows with Allyson Scammell
In today’s episode we explore:
- The biggest culprit to a muddled message.
- How you can find your message.
- How to get crystal clear with the content you put out.
Listen + Subscribe on iTunes.
She Grows with Allyson Scammell
In today’s episode we explore:
Listen + Subscribe on iTunes.
She Grows with Allyson Scammell
Ep#32: Clarify Your Message and Increase Your Sales with Dane Sanders
Allyson Scammell: This is Allyson Scammell and this episode is I’m just so excited to share it. It’s all about clarifying your message so that you can increase your sales. Yes. The two are directly related. I talked to the CEO of tellmeyourdreams.com, Dane Sanders, about how we can clarify our message and our marketing content in a way that calls in our ideal audience. Dane shares the
[00:00:27] Biggest culprit to a muddled message. He explains how you can find your message and how to get crystal clear. With the content you put out. We end on a challenge that we’ll have you crafting messages that light up your ideal audience so stick with us until the end. Welcome to She Grows, a podcast for soul guided women entrepreneurs, ready to grow their income impact and inspiration each week.
[00:00:58] We’re going to explore how to align to the soul of your business and grow it from there. I’m your host Allyson. Scammell, let’s get growing.
[00:01:14] Hey, there She Grows Nation. That is the name of this sisterhood of soul guided entrepreneurs at she grows nation. Your heart is CEO, and you’re getting fully booked with ideal clients using your unique genius, intuitive voice and spirit guides. Before I get into the interview, I want to share that I just took Donald Miller’s story brand workshop.
[00:01:39] If you’re not familiar with StoryBrand, it’s a marketing messaging tool. That allows organizations and entrepreneurs to clarify their message, using a seven part process that leverages the power of story. I can’t tell you how exciting this is to me. I first saw Donald Miller being interviewed on a podcast with him.
[00:02:04]Amy Porterfield. And I just knew that this was a process and a framework that I absolutely wanted to get to know. The first thing I did was got ahold of his book, building a StoryBrand and I read it two or even three times. And I really started implementing the seven part framework that is modeled after the ancient art of storytelling.
[00:02:34] But then I reached a point where I knew I really wanted to take it to the next level. So I signed up for the two day workshop and it was unbelievable. I learned so much and I realized that my messages weren’t nearly as clear as I thought they were. And I was lucky enough to have Dane as my coach through the workshop.
[00:02:53] So speaking of Dane, he’s our guest today, Dane Sanders taught leadership and character development at Westmont college. On the side he began a photography business, shot professionally for about 12 years, and authored two books for photographers looking to make a living when everyone already has a camera.
[00:03:14] Seth Godin calls his writing a precious gift as the CEO of tell me your dreams.com day now teaches, writes consults and coaches on the business of creativity and narrative marketing. I am a true fan of Dane. And may you receive as much from his wisdom as I have?
[00:03:40] Hi Dane. Thank you so much for being on the show.
[00:03:43] Dane Sanders: Hi, Allyson. Thanks for having me.
[00:03:46] Allyson Scammell: Oh my gosh. I’m so excited to be talking with you on this topic. I got to know Dane because I just did the,StoryBrand workshop and I had so much fun learning from you and going through that process.
[00:03:58] Dane Sanders: Yeah, it’s powerful.
[00:03:59] Isn’t it? When you connect the dots between story and enrolling others, it can be transformational. Everything opens up.
[00:04:08] Allyson Scammell: It is so transformational. And I’ve been at this entrepreneurial game for a while now. And I, I read the story brand book, the, his main book about the.
[00:04:20] Dane Sanders: Building a story, building a StoryBrand.
[00:04:23] Allyson Scammell: you. Building a story brand. And I’ve been implementing the formula for a while. but boy, going through that workshop really uplevels everything.
[00:04:32] Dane Sanders: Yeah. There’s something about when we, go beyond just learning content, but start trying to implement that content in our lives in a, in a real way where we kind of, we think through that lens or see through that lens, It is it’s harder, but it’s also far more meaningful.
[00:04:49] Isn’t it? We get more value that way.
[00:04:52] Allyson Scammell: Yeah. Yes. Yes. So I’d love to know what’s the most common mistake you see entrepreneurs make in their marketing and sales copy.
[00:05:03] Dane Sanders: Yeah, I think the, the biggest challenge. When anyone ever wakes up in the morning, they think about their favorite person, which is themselves are the center of their story.
[00:05:13] I’m the center of my story. When I wake up, I suspect you are too. and I don’t say that in a, in a judgmental way, in any way, it’s just, we are the protagonist and our narratives and our stories. And I think it’s very difficult when we build. And we’ll take such efforts to build something special, to deliver to others, whether it be a product or a service and not.
[00:05:39] Be excited about it, not to want to lead with telling people, Hey, let me tell you about how awesome I am or this thing is, I’m the star of my show. I’ve created this really cool thing. And I think that the number one mistake people make with their messaging as they are looking through life, through their glasses, through their own perspective.
[00:05:58] And, and when we, when we do that, we miss the fact that everyone else is looking at life through their glasses. But if you can somehow get out from behind your glasses and look at what your product or service looks like from the perspective of the other, from the person who might need what you have to offer.
[00:06:16] That’s when everything transforms the way we talk about it in StoryBrand land is we say, if you are the hero of the story in your marketing, you have a problem. You are not the hero, you’re the guide. And we can talk more about that in a minute, but the it’s, the it’s really, that’s what makes a difference.
[00:06:35]the, the biggest difference for your customers is when they begin to realize, like you understand where they’re coming from and you have the goods to really deliver, but, but to deliver on them, getting what they want, not you selling your thing or you getting another client, but actually you are the person that’s going to help them get what they want when they see your marketing.
[00:06:56] Message that way. your communication that way, all of a sudden they go, it goes from you trying to sell someone to you being a magnet where they’re coming toward you saying, how can you help me get what I’m looking for?
[00:07:11] Allyson Scammell: That’s so powerful. I love that so much. I said, I think I like, I even struggled with this because.
[00:07:19] I, you know, I, I’m a coach and I use the tools that I teach and I feel like I get these big shifts from them and I want to share, and sometimes I really have to hold myself back, to be like, it’s not all about my own transformation.
[00:07:34] Dane Sanders: Well, transformation is funny because. And, you know, you think of every great story ever told the hero is the one who goes through a transformation.
[00:07:42] It’s, it’s fantastic. and if you think of your customers, the hero, their, their job to be transformed. If you’re the guide, you actually don’t transform. You’ve already trained. You’ve already done the
[00:07:54] Allyson Scammell: work.
[00:07:56] Dane Sanders: So now you’re freed up to really set the table for somebody else to win the day, as opposed to.
[00:08:01]it has to be you. And actually that’s where it becomes far more meaningful. Actually, our work actually comes to life when we don’t have to transform, but we set the table for someone else to. Beautiful.
[00:08:12] Allyson Scammell: I love that. So if a business owner says to you, Dane, I’m not sure what my message should be. How would you guide them to clarifying that?
[00:08:22] Dane Sanders: Well, I think again, it’s kind of the, how to, of what I just talked about. So the idea of, if you’re not the hero, you’re the guide. I think the first question to ask is what does the hero one lead with the question of, of what, what are they looking to have happen in their life that. means, and they would do it except for, there are some problems in the way.
[00:08:41] There are some obstacles in the way. And if you can get clear on those two things in the positive, what do they want? And in the challenging, what is in the way, and you start using that language, what you do is you trigger empathy for the customer. They will now. Hear you as someone who sees them, where they’re at.
[00:09:02] Cause if you start talking about the problems, like you’re reading their, their mail, all of a sudden they’ll, they’ll be like, well, you get me, you understand? And that’s empathy. And once you’ve established empathy, then you can start talking about your authority, how you can help them get where they want to go.
[00:09:19] But even if you never get to the you talking about your product, if all you do is talk about. The problems your customers are up against. You will create this, this like pied Piper effect where people will come to you just because you’re singing their tune. You’re, you’re talking about things that they are experiencing in their life on the regular, and you will give them a clue that you might just have the clues for them to move forward.
[00:09:46] Allyson Scammell: Yeah. So I’ve noticed a lot of the people who listen to this podcast tend to be coaches, healers, you know, yogis type people. And they tend to be my clients. And I noticed that they often want to go to solutions. Well, I help them get this solution and that solution, and they seem to. They don’t highlight the problem enough.
[00:10:06] I feel,
[00:10:07] Dane Sanders: yeah. It’s common for sure. I mean, I think you think about that. It’s like, if you’re excited about the thing you want to offer, I totally understand that you want to share it, but until you make sure that you’re solving a problem, it’s going to fall on deaf ears. People just won’t be able to hear it at the highest and best value.
[00:10:24] And you’re right. Is that that patient person who can spend a little time with a friend and not rushing to the sale. But leading with leading with, well, tell me where more, where you’re coming from. And as you understand that you can position what you have to offer with much, get a better grace and a sense of clarity of purpose of how this thing that you’re offering them could really make a significant difference.
[00:10:51] Allyson Scammell: That’s so good. That’s so good. So you and I had this debate during the workshop and I’m, you know, I’m still, I’m still struggling a little bit about, about whether you speak, to your niche with more tailored, tailored language for them, or use more mainstream language that is often clearer and anyone could understand.
[00:11:13] So this podcast is for spiritual women entrepreneurs. And sometimes I like to use very spiritual niche language to them. And one of the things that came up in the workshop was that it’s better if the language is clearer and maybe a bit more mainstream. So I would like to hear what you have to say about, do we speak to our niche or to everyone, everyone who’s in our market.
[00:11:39] That is, and why or why not?
[00:11:41] Dane Sanders: Yeah. So here’s where we agree. I think if you ask the question, when you speak in niche insider language, for people are in the club, and understand what you’re doing is you’re giving signals that, Hey, I understand what we’re talking about. If you’re in an industry and you don’t use industry language or said differently, If you use really foreign language visually, or with words, it comes off as inauthentic.
[00:12:08] So like, yesterday there was this, famous picture. it, and this is going to display a little bit of my political bias here, but, Donald Trump held up a Bible, for, and it looked like a bit of a photo op in front of this church that had gone through the riots. And, he didn’t really look like he knew how to hold the Bible very well.
[00:12:27] Like he, it looked like he was rehearsing it and trying to figure out like, what will, what will communicate, how I hold this thing? And it was even interesting, somewhat a reporter yelled from the crowd and said, president Trump, is that your Bible? And he said, it’s a Bible. Meaning it wasn’t his, it was really clear.
[00:12:46] He didn’t know how to, even though he was giving symbolic gestures to suggest he was in the right space and had the right prompts in front of him or props in front of him, it was really clear to folks who are familiar with that kind of a world that he was not, that was not a, a native place to him.
[00:13:03] So I understand where you’re coming from. When you make the case for like, Hey, we want to give signals that we are actually, you’re talking to other people who get it. the way my mentor likes to put it, people like ask you things like this. You want to communicate that you get, you get the joke, you understand that the etiquette, but here’s the rep for the folks.
[00:13:22] If you were just, having a conversation exclusively with people who are inside the club, but you actually are interested in inviting people outside the club in a, they’re going to feel like it’s foreign. They’re going to feel like there isn’t a front door or it’s inviting. and I should add, there are people who are in the club who don’t understand all of the, of the insider language, and they’re gonna feel a little bit other.
[00:13:46] But here’s, what’s interesting is when you get your language clear, like clear enough so that my 14 year old daughter can understand what I do for a living. If I were to explain it, what happens is not only do I invite people from outside in, and I clarify things, people who are on the inside, but I’m giving definition to the language I’m using in such a way that it’s accessible.
[00:14:09] So I’m not saying, don’t tell people that they’re in the right spot and they’re with the right. People do that, but just use language. That’s that clear? Cause it turns out the clarity always trumps, trying to be clever when you’re clear, you end up breaking through the noise and people can hear you differently.
[00:14:30] And I should add too. If everybody is using insider language all the time, it can land a little bit like. cliche or trite, but if you can say the same meaningful words where people understand what you’re talking about, but they’re associating it now with more clear language, all of a sudden you have opened up, you haven’t closed things down, you’ve opened up your niche.
[00:14:53] So that actually they’ll have new and fresh ways to talk about the things that you were pointing to with your shorthand language that you had before.
[00:15:04] Allyson Scammell: That is a really good explanation. And I have to say, I think I am converted on this because after the workshop, I, thought of some like really spiritual coach guru people who are like talking to angels and, you know, talking to their spirit animals.
[00:15:22] And, but, you know, people, I wanted to go with people who are very, very spiritual doing kind of. Things that aren’t always very mainstream if you will. but with large following. So I’m like, what are they saying on their website? And guess what Dane, their, their language is super clear, super mainstream.
[00:15:40] If you will, it’s not insider spiritual talk. And I was like, Oh yeah, but yet I, I could get like, I was still understanding what, who they were and what they stood for, you know?
[00:15:52] Dane Sanders: Yeah. Well, let me just add, like the universal language of humanity is not English or Spanish or Italian or French or spiritual or, guru.
[00:16:04]the universal language is story. If you can frame out whatever you’re doing in such a way where it’s it lands in a framework where there’s a, A beginning, a middle and end. There’s a protagonist, there’s an enemy. There’s a problem to be solved. There’s a plan to win the day. And they do that because a hero goes on a journey and they meet a guide and they go through a process so that they transform and experience success and ignore and pass by failure.
[00:16:32] When you take people in a journey like that, everyone will get it. So that, that language of, of, Of narrative of story is what is most commonly understood as human. And when you speak it is powerful. And then one thing I’ll just add to that. Well, what we just talked about is, there’s this, this, this great Japanese proverb that suggests, if there’s no surprise, there’s no story.
[00:16:55] And to introduce surprise is to introduce language that people didn’t know was coming. And it offered a gratifying or satisfying result. so it comes from a different angle, but it’s clear it’s plain it’s I understand it, but it’s not boring. It’s I had never thought of it that way, which is why people who can write well, oftentimes have a tremendous skillset to offer.
[00:17:22]it’s one of the reasons why I would encourage. Your listeners to think about not just trying to create their own a website copy or their own kind of means to promote what they’re doing, but to bring in someone who might be a little less close to their, to their offering and can offer a fresh perspective on it.
[00:17:41] Because when they do that, all of a sudden their marketing message becomes, it stands out as surprisingly refreshing and clear and insightful, even though they’re using. Probably the meanings that the owners of these companies already have, but putting it in, a new vehicle for people to receive it, more clearly.
[00:18:00] Allyson Scammell: Yes. Yes. That is so useful. That is a super good tip. I am someone who doesn’t really like formulas, even, even when I know they’ll work, like I have this sort of my rebellious nature in me is like, ah, no, I don’t want to do formulas, but there’s just something about the StoryBrand formula, which is really a formula.
[00:18:20] As you said, it’s a, it’s a universal language. That I think the StoryBrand people have just packaged in a way that’s really, really easy to plug into and it just spoke to me. And I said, you know what? I, it was my goal for 2020. I want to get better at writing my sales, copy my marketing content. And I want to use the story brand, this story narrative.
[00:18:40] Cause I find it so powerful just as everything you’re saying,
[00:18:43] Dane Sanders: I’m with you. I find formula. or being formulaic as, not that doesn’t that betrays, this idea of being surprising and people see it coming, it doesn’t work quite as well, but I, I guess another way to think about it, isn’t always formulaic. It said it’s, you’re bringing structure that people can track.
[00:19:00] And, I think many folks in your guys’s world maybe have a bias towards the, if you think of like bones and flesh, you guys have the fleshy part really. Really down. but if you don’t give people the structure part, they don’t, they lose their bearings really quickly and they don’t know where they’re at.
[00:19:18] And I think if people can offer clear structure that takes people on a, on a, through a process, oftentimes you’re doing the exact same thing that you’re doing before, but people just understand where they’re at through the process and have a better experience.
[00:19:34] Allyson Scammell: Totally. And I actually think process is a much better word to describe what we’re talking about right then formula that’s.
[00:19:40] Right. So that is beautiful. So tell us, how clarifying our message actually leads to increase sales.
[00:19:46] Dane Sanders: Yeah. So that we have a, a little mantra at StoryBrand that goes something like this. If you confuse you lose, and we’re not the only organization who understands this, there’s a lot of people and, and organizations that have gotten clear that if they’re not clear, people go somewhere else.
[00:20:04]everyone knows that we get a gazillion marketing messages every day. There’s so much noise in the marketplace and to survive. Humans are constantly filtering out messages. They’re trying not to pay attention because they only want to pay attention. They only have so many caloric calories in their body.
[00:20:23] They have only so much energy that they can spend and they only want to do it on the important stuff. And if you’re confusing, Humans have to not pay attention to you. It’s not, they’re not doing anything wrong. They’re just, you’re not, you’re not inviting them into a means by which they can survive and thrive.
[00:20:41] And if you are clear and you’re clear right out of the gate, you’re creating this beacon where people will pay more attention to you than they will to anyone else. I mean, the classic example of this was, you know, all of the different. Products and services that are in the marketplace that are not the best products and services, but their community they’re communicated the most.
[00:21:03] Clearly, those are the ones that people purchase. People do not buy the best products and services. They don’t, they buy the ones that people understand and that’s what translates. So again, the classic example was that we talked a lot about in the last election was what did Jeb Bush want to do with America?
[00:21:22] And everyone is awkwardly silent when you ask that question because no one knew it was really, it was unclear that with Trump, but with Trump, you know, what did he want to do with America? Everyone knew. And again, a classic example of not the best product in my view, but certainly the most clear product.
[00:21:40] And that’s why he got elected.
[00:21:42] Allyson Scammell: But a good example, I see it all the time with coaches. Not necessarily the best coaches are, you know, making them multi-six figure salaries, but they have the best, the clearest message. And you know, they’re calling me not to call people in.
[00:21:58] Dane Sanders: I was going to say the dream is to be both right.
[00:22:00] Like be great at your craft. And we’re not saying, we’re not saying ditch one for the other. It’s just be, be, be excellent at both.
[00:22:05] Allyson Scammell: Yes. Beautiful. Yes. Yes. Yes. And it’s funny since I’ve taken the workshop now I’m just noticing clarity so much more and I have a three year old. And so I watch a lot of like toy, you know, we are, we’re always trying to find that family movie that we can all watch.
[00:22:21] And I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Incredibles, the film.
[00:22:26] Dane Sanders: I love it.
[00:22:27] Allyson Scammell: Oh, I love it. And my daughter loves it. And I just notice how clear absolutely crystal clear the dialogue is. Yeah. So the three year old can understand it, but yet it’s interesting enough for the 44 year old to get into it as well.
[00:22:42] Dane Sanders: Yeah. Yeah. That’s the brilliance of Pixar is a, they understand story better than most anyone on the planet. And they also happen to be the best at what they do. So it’s such a beautiful when the two come together, it’s everyone expects excellence. it’s kind of like the Apple in its heyday with, with Steve jobs is same thing.
[00:23:03]you know, there’s a lot of people that had MP3 players, but there was only Apple that offered a thousand songs in your pocket. And all of a sudden people went, I want that that’s clear. and, and it wasn’t about the device anymore. It was about what the device would give me. With that it would solve a problem.
[00:23:19] I didn’t have to carry all my records with Mandy Moore or even my company anymore. And that’s, and these are the kinds of things that great communicators always lead with clarity, clarity, clarity.
[00:23:32] Allyson Scammell: Yes. Beautiful. Okay. So what is, can you give us your number one tip. If I have to, I’ll go there to help us create a clear message that calls in our ideal audience.
[00:23:44] Dane Sanders: So my number one tip. Well, I guess some that I already pointed to a little bit is just, lead with the problem lead with the problem lead with the problem. Cause I think, and, but the reason you’re doing that is because when you speak problem, you are, you are empathy. You are, you are inviting people to kind of hear, understand that you get where they’re coming from.
[00:24:03] But, I think that after you’ve established empathy and you’ve been clear about the authority, I think one of the pieces that I think people often forget and it’s kind of mind boggling. But they forget to ask for the sale. They’re unclear in the actual call to action. they, they have, it’s almost as though, this idea that if I just put all of the value that I think I deliver on a page that that’s going to be enough and the truth is it isn’t, people in this day and age with so many pieces of content that we can consume and investigate and research.
[00:24:36]we actually can go my wife and I do this all the time. We. We can watch. We don’t even have to watch movies anymore. We can just watch trailers like over and over. We can go, let’s watch a movie and we sit down and we start looking at movie trailers and the trailers are such full, complete stories in and of themselves.
[00:24:53] I don’t have a need to. To go do anything else. There’s never a call to action. There’s never a rent now button. And it’s tragic because, I think people, if there was a call to action, there would be more of a sense of like, Hey, you had this little bit now get the final piece, understand where the story really goes.
[00:25:11] And I think that’s true for your customers too, that if, if you’re not regularly saying to them, this is the next step to take. you’re, you’re basically shutting off your cash register. And if people are complaining that they don’t have a lot of sales, I have a hunch. It might have a little bit to do with the fact that they’re not asking for the sale enough.
[00:25:33] Allyson Scammell: Yeah, I love it. StoryBrand you call the call to action buttons, cash registers. Yes. That’s very clever. And as I was redoing my website, after I took the workshop, I’m like, Oh, I do not have enough cash registers in my website and my virtual world.
[00:25:50] Dane Sanders: And it’s amazing when you start at people. It’s funny. It’s tempting to think.
[00:25:54] No, I shouldn’t put this the call to action too often because I’m being pushy. You’re not being pushy because the truth is people don’t even notice them. It’s not, they want to see them when they’re ready and if you’re not there, ready, then they’ll move on. But, they, they’re kind of blind to the calls to action until they’re ready to take action, but it has to be there when they need it just in time.
[00:26:14] Allyson Scammell: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. So Dane, I like always like to ask my guests to put them on a spot, the spot just a little bit, which I know you’ll be good at. You’re used to, can you leave our listeners with a challenge
[00:26:26] Dane Sanders: while I’m going to push back a little bit? So challenge you, what direction? What do you think your, your listeners need most?
[00:26:31] Allyson Scammell: I think they’re, they’re kinda, I’m going to make myself the hero because right now you’re the guide. I think a lot of them are struggling with what I was struggling with in that, the, yeah, the message. Just not clear enough, it probably too nichey, like to insider baseball and, too, maybe complicated too.
[00:26:50] Not just not crisp and clear.
[00:26:53] Dane Sanders: I think that probably the number one thing I would do if I was in that position is I would find one or two friends and I call them up and I’d say, can we just make a pact right now that we’re going to bring. Intelligence Goodwill and candor to our conversation where we’re going to bring our best thinking.
[00:27:14] We’re going to bring our best, thinking about the person, not just about our ideas, but like that, I think, well, of you and want the best for you. That’s a Goodwill bit. And then the candor and in the light of those two things, I’m going to speak really candidly about how your messaging is landing for me.
[00:27:32] There’s something about someone outside of your perspective of it’s your baby, you know, everybody’s babies looks beautiful. unless you’re your neighbor, cause your neighbor thinks your baby looks different than you do. Like it’s just something about, inviting people to, from an alternative perspective.
[00:27:47] And if you can get two or three people together, maybe today, like don’t waste any time. But as soon as you can get on a call and say, let’s all look at our websites together and, and just give feedback, what do we see? What, what gets communicated? Where is there confusion? What is there? Is there a clear plan?
[00:28:04] Is there a clear call to action is a problem playing in evidence? Are we sh are you clear on who you’re speaking to or are you trying to speak to several different kinds of people and it’s giving a mixed message. And I think as you capture that, those insights, now you have, you might be tempted to be discouraged.
[00:28:21] It’s not a time to be discouraged. It’s time to get to work because now as soon as now, you know what to clarify. And when you clarify that, go back to those same people and ask them is now, is it more clear? What you don’t want to be is more clever, more clever, actually creates more confusion, clarity, always trumps being clever.
[00:28:42] And if you don’t put yourself in a position where, you know, That you’re being clear. You’re always going to be second guessing your messaging and that just doesn’t feel good. So that would be my challenge is to take the risk with your friends who have Goodwill candor and, and a sense of candor, a Goodwill, Goodwill, candor, intelligence, and, ask them because I promise you, they’ll tell you far greater insights and give you the gold more than your prospective clients will, but when you get it right, you should anticipate that the clients will follow.
[00:29:15] Allyson Scammell: Oh, what a good challenge. It just makes me think of, when we started the StoryBrand workshop. I believe you asked, like on a scale of zero to 10, how clear do you think your website is? And I gave myself a seven. And then at the end of it, you asked again, or I think it was on the feedback form and I gave it a three.
[00:29:34] Because I realized actually how it wasn’t really clear at
[00:29:37] Dane Sanders: all, but it went from the three initially would have felt like bad news, but now that you knew what to do with it, and that was good news. Right.
[00:29:45] Allyson Scammell: Exactly. And I definitely feel, it’s back up to a seven again, because I’ve implemented the changes.
[00:29:51] Well, a lot of the changes, so
[00:29:53] Dane Sanders: yeah, that Delta from three to seven, that’s the measuring stick. It doesn’t matter if you come into the seven or you come in as a three at the beginning. It’s what are you going to do from there? So if you can get from a three to a seven, that’s a, that’s a leap. and I think a lot of folks, they just kind of.
[00:30:09] Stay stagnant because they don’t put themselves in a challenging position. And that’s what you did. And as a result, you’re, you’re going to benefit from it. That’s fantastic.
[00:30:18] Allyson Scammell: Oh, well, thank you. Okay. This has been so amazing. Gosh, I’ve learned so much. Can you please tell people who are listening to this?
[00:30:26] Who would, I’m sure love to get on your mailing list and get in your social media world and see what you’re doing online. How can they find you?
[00:30:33] Dane Sanders: Sure. Yeah. now just to be clear, I, I love StoryBrand Don is a friend and I it’s always a privilege when I get a chance to work into the Ram star brand, but that’s entirely done Donald Miller stuff and his world.
[00:30:45]I get a chance to come alongside and support. However I can there. I have my own world. my name is Dane Sanders and that’s the easiest way. Way to find me is D a n E S a N D E R S in a Google search. And you’ll find my podcast, Dane sanders.com. I run a company called tellmeyourdreams.com, which is a lot of fun.
[00:31:05] Delivering proactive mental health to people in the workplace. it’s a, it’s just a really fun set of projects, but, easily found just a quick Google and, I’d love to get to know your audience.
[00:31:14] Allyson Scammell: Yes. And you have an amazing podcast and you get some really amazing guests like Seth Godin and. You know, Gretchen Rubin, like really, really big names and that is super and Donald Miller.
[00:31:26] And, and so, check out his podcast, we’ll leave links in the show notes and you, this was just been so great connecting and the coolest thing about Dane. It’s actually not all of his knowledge on everything we just talked about is that he’s exactly, he’s a Tottenham Hotspur span. So that makes him the coolest I have to say.
[00:31:52] Dane Sanders: I lucked out on that one. Thanks, Allyson.
[00:31:56] Allyson Scammell: All right, well, thank you again, Danw. I really appreciate it.
[00:31:59] Dane Sanders: Yeah. Thank you for all the. The work that you’re doing to lead a community and to, be famous to your family in such a way that it it’s transforming lives. Thank you.
[00:32:08] Allyson Scammell: And thank you so much for listening.
[00:32:11] And if you’re digging on this episode, please hit subscribe wherever it is you listen, and I’d be so, so grateful for a rating and a few nice words about why you liked this podcast. And the more reviews we get, the more people can find us. And if you’d like help calling in your ideal people, then download my free PDF guide and worksheet the five visibility blockers that are preventing your ideal clients from finding you your offerings are too important to remain invisible.
[00:32:48] So this guide is here to help you be seen and get fully booked. Download your copy at my website. AllysonScammell.com and you can find the link in the show notes.